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[lineygoblue]

Hmmm.. I really didn't consider that statement to be anything close to beating my chest about homosexuals. But, if that's the way you read it, .. ok .. I guess.

I didn't use Ralph Phelps as a moral measuring stick. I used him as a comparison to illustrate my point. If I were to use Ralph Phelps as a moral measuring stick, I'd have said something silly like "More Christians need to be like Ralph Phelps". But, I didn't say that ... so again .. if you interpreted it that way, .. ok ... I guess.

And thanks for pointing out my statement not to continue the discussion. But please understand, those of us who are mentally ill are a bit unstable, and tend to forget things that we may have promised earlier. I humbly apologize for my offense.

[Jeff Buchanan]

There are messages here by Robertson involving fundamentalist Christian ideology. I'm not sure he intends to send a message but it is a message nonetheless.

When the LGBT community speaks out there are ideological messages as well. These ideological messages from the two communities are frequently at odds. That makes news. Thus, the wall to wall coverage as shallow as those differences are.

There are many important issues that warrant public debate. This is not one of them ...... two separate communities with different values who are unlikely to find common ground in a society that is becoming increasingly heterogeneous by race, color and values. It's pretty much like the abortion debate. Not at all productive except to the extremists on either end of the abortion debate spectrum or among atheists and those who profess a belief in God.

It pisses me off that public debate, as stupid as it is over these two subjects, pushes to the background important issues involving the public debt, how and for what purpose our government taxes it's citizens and then spends that money, the increasing gap between the poor and the wealthy in the US, a shitty healthcare delivery system and how we relate to as well as defend ourselves against a vastly diverse group of nation states and non-nation groups.

But it doesn't surprise me one bit that our nation is completely engaged in this bullshit involving Robertson's comments. Seeing this, is there any reason whatsoever for us to understand why our elected officials won't debate and address through legislation important national issues or fashion cogent defense and foreign policy positions?

[Tony G]

My point is Liney that you are the only one in here even bringing up homosexuals or the reactions to it. No one else went there.

He was in fact, quite conciliatory in many ways. Much moreso than some others (i.e. Westboro) that I've seen.

You are comparing his comments to Phelps i.e. yardstick.

And please spare me the faux martyr mental illness BS. No one in here said you were homophobic, you took yourself there

[entropy]

Jeff. Agree. This disagreement should not be news. We have bigger issues than a debate that will never change.

[-Deborah-]

The only thing that is news to me is that people think this guy was denied his constitutional rights. Good lord, that's ridiculous.

[Tony G]

exactly

[The Oracle]

+2

[Tony G]

maybe...

Duck! Reality TV Returns Us to the Dark Age of Tribal Warfare

By James PoulosDecember 21st 20135:45 am
More Stories by James Poulos

How is anyone shocked by the homophobia scandal? The tribal conflict and identity politics of the show?and, indeed, most reality TV?are what Americans want now.
I don?t know if your head exploded when Bill de Blasio used Lorde?s monster hit ?Royals? as his victory theme. Mine suddenly swelled, Total Recall-style. Relative obscurity and penury, her anthem claims, rule just as hard as the point-oh-oh-one percent realm of excess and access. The song?s subversive edge, much better suited for pop bangers than political banners, comes from the hook at the end of the chorus: ?Let me live that fantasy.?

Like lots of teenagers, Lorde gets now. She knows that the bygone world of titles, nobles, and royals was a joke?rooted in the vanities of an enchanted past, not in the reality of our shared humanity. But now it?s a joke that we can all be in on. Not even money can keep us out. Today the ?royal experience? isn?t fundamentally about popping bottles or making it rain in the strip club. It?s about treating yourself like a king or a queen?or, really, like an emperor. No filter, no shame, no one to answer to. Self-entitlement with a good conscience.

Today, if you really want to watch Americans live that fantasy, you?d best sit down for some reality television. There, tribes rule, and not just Kardashians. Aristocratic metaphors fly as furiously as bleeped diatribes, from 2005?s Princes of Malibu to today?s Shahs of Sunset. And lest you subhuman racist types think TV tribalism is an import from the decadent, swarthy remains of the empire of Alexander the Great, keep flipping those channels. Over on Great American Country?yes, that?s a channel?you can tune in to Farm Kings, where a dozen all-American relatives ?battle the elements?and each other?to keep the family business going.? Their family name? King! Shakespeare couldn?t make this stuff up!

But the reigning TV family tribe, far outstripping the power of every noble house in Westeros, is now so familiar to the general public that you can win plushies bearing their likeness in those claw-grabber games at the arcade. None is more tribal, none more family, and none more American than the stars of Duck Dynasty.
Which, as anyone with a television now knows, is a problem.

Not for the first time, we have a reality TV scandal on our hands that has nothing surprising about it. Hickish rube deems sex sinful unless straight and married. Film at 11. Yet the outrage surrounding Duck patriarch Phil Robertson?and the counter-outrage marshaled to his aid?has nothing to do with shock. Robertson?s views return us to familiar battlegrounds in the culture war.

So some will continue to say that we stupid Americans really love all-or-nothing conflicts. Beat the Nazis, beat the communists?the jihadis aren?t nearly scary enough to feed our hunger for ?round-the-clock othering, so, praise the God of War, we have each other. Theorists have long surmised that, since the fall of the French monarchy, ?democratic? war has been total by default, the enemy stripped of all honor, stripped practically of his very personhood. Perpetual culture war fits right into that tidy framework.

Today our social imagination is a Game of Thrones world, replete with vast kinship networks, endless shouting matches, constant betrayal, and bloody vendettas.

But that overlooks the real breaking news surrounding the Robertson freakout. For years, thanks especially to the TV and the Internet, Americans have been deeply moved and captivated by completely anachronistic forms of entertainment centered around tribal war. Rather that thrilling to conflict that pits nation against nation, or human against alien, we?re reverting to the themes and narrative structures of epic poetry. As I said of last year?s blockbuster fiction franchises, the epic poem is back, it?s viral, and it?s worth billions. And what goes for multivolume serial novels goes double for reality television. America doesn?t really break out the popcorn for political conflict?or war?unless it?s linked in to intimately personal interrelationships.
We all seem to understand that the fantasy Lorde describes requires a deep archive of collective memory. Without an ongoing visceral recollection of the lost era of monarchs, nobles, feuds, and bloodlines, we lose the inspiration to dress up and pretend. We sink into the domesticated blandness of our interchangeable, modern-era selves.

The drama surrounding Duck Dynasty is even less shocking that it first appeared. Our unexpected lust for reliving and rehearsing tribal conflict makes the identity politics of reality television feel like the most natural thing on Earth. Dump the talk of a new civil war. Drop your clash of civilizations references into the dustbin of history. Today our social imagination is a Game of Thrones world, replete with vast kinship networks, endless shouting matches, constant betrayal, and bloody vendettas. And we?re loving every minute of it.

[lineygoblue]

Ok, good.

Now that things are in proper order, its time to move on.

Thanks.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Tony - could you please point out the post where I was beating my chest about homosexuals? I don't recall that one.

And I humbly apologize for my ignorance in assuming that the US Constitution protects individual liberties ONLY when they are violated by the US government. I guess Rosa Parks must have been the exception ... although I have known some bus drivers who think they rule the world .. and the road ...

Not to wade in here, but I feel like I should probably correct two things.

1. Duck Dynasty dude is not Rosa Parks. He is much closer to Bull Connor. Rosa was trying to expand rights and public participation, DDD (like Bull Connor) is trying to keep people from fully participating in the public arena.

2. Rosa Parks and the Montgomery bus situation did involve state action. Specifically, there were state and local laws that mandated segregation. Ms. Parks was arrested for violating these laws, and it was these laws that were later found to be unconstitutional. DDD has not been jailed, nor is there a law against being a bigot and expressing those views. So, there are no constitutional implications that I am aware of.

[lineygoblue]

Very good.

On to more important things.

[UMStan White]

Seattle beat me to it.

[-Deborah-]

My avatar has changed today in support of Phil Robertson and his rights under the US Constitution. The Michigan pic will re-appear soon.

Not to wade in here, but I feel like I should probably correct two things.

1. Duck Dynasty dude is not Rosa Parks. He is much closer to Bull Connor. Rosa was trying to expand rights and public participation, DDD (like Bull Connor) is trying to keep people from fully participating in the public arena.

2. Rosa Parks and the Montgomery bus situation did involve state action. Specifically, there were state and local laws that mandated segregation. Ms. Parks was arrested for violating these laws, and it was these laws that were later found to be unconstitutional. DDD has not been jailed, nor is there a law against being a bigot and expressing those views. So, there are no constitutional implications that I am aware of.

Very good.

On to more important things.

lol, sorry...you made it seem this issue WAS important.

[lineygoblue]

Thank you Deborah.

[Rob F]

Is this where I go to request that Jim Schwartz is deprived of his rights to continue on as Lion's Head Coach?