The Rest of College Football

[geo weidl]

For me, I look at it monetarily. Why would a someone making 3.5 mil x 4 years= 14 mil plus bonuses, book sales and other incentives, give up all that money when he'll just get a slap on the wrist?

[Jeff Buchanan]

Hannibal is absolutely correct and, while I understand your need to defend osu, DSL, the iceberg analogy probably applies.

I've said this before .... the rules of evidence don't apply in a COI conducted by the NCAA. That has a lot of drawbacks IMO but it is what it is. The Committee on Infractions when it decides what punishments to meet out among those that are available, aren't looking at uniform sentencing guidelines like a judge in a court of law might use. I think you know all of this.

The point here is that you keep calling for "proof." That's a pretty meaningless request in this discussion. The NCAA doesn't need proof that meets any kind of legal standard ...... which is why nobody really knows what they are going to do to osu.

All you have here is a group of supposedly informed officials who can sit down and say, "what I'm being told doesn't make any sense and doesn't match the information we have and the conclusions we have drawn from it." That's why USC got what they got ..... not because the COI had "proof" of anything. They just decided that what USC officials were telling them didn't add up.

I see the same problem facing osu. What they are going to be told about the cars, about the memorabilia sales for money, about monitoring, about reporting by osu officials isn't going to match what the COI officials have in hand. It will stink just like most of us north of the ohio Michigan boarder have known for a decade. They are going to draw conclusions much like they did in the USC case.

I could be very wrong about this but I think osu is going to get hammered and nothing you say about UNC's or USC's violations as a means of ameliorating osu's violations (i.e., not any where near as bad) means didly.

Enjoy osu's day in the NCAA's Court of confusion where whatever they might think on any given day will determine your fate.

[entropy]

Former Southern California football player Lonnie White says he took $14,000 in illegal payments during his four-year career in the 1980s, mostly by selling game tickets allotted to scholarship players.

More...

[Jeff Buchanan]

Shocked .... just shocked.

There seems to be a common theme emerging following the osu debacle ....... I've heard it from Bill King, Finebaum, ESPN alike. Paying players is now and has been a common practice across CFB. No one will say its wide spread (and I would agree with this) but it happens especially with top players.

King has made several good points that the excuse that everybody does it should not prompt efforts from the conferences with approval by the NCAA to pay players or to simply accept that it happens and move on. Chaos would ensue and I agree with that.

IMO, strong enforcement of existing rules about inappropriate benefits with stiff penalties for breaking them imposed on players (suspended and/or kicked off the team) and programs (uniform scholarship reduction - that is penalties - for cases where it is likely compliance officials knew or should have known) combined with monetary fines and sanctions that last on a HC's record up to and including banning from CFB coaching for a specified period will stop this activity in a heart beat. No one is going to stop the boosters ..... you have to punish those players that take what they are offering or program officials and coaches who look the other way (or don't keep a watchful eye out for this) with more than hand slaps ..... the common practice up until now.

I'd offer that osu is the perfect program for the NCAA to show they mean business.

[Hannibal]

I don't think that USC got off easy, given the circumstantial nature of all of the evidence, but they didn't get the Draconian punishment that it's being made out to be. It will hurt, but it didn't send the message "cheating dosen't pay". The two year bowl ban has had zero effect upon recruiting, and the scholarship reductions will still leave USC with a decent reservoir of talent until the sanctions wear off. Was it worth it for USC? Hell yes, it was. OSU right now is being hurt by the speculation that they will get punished, but if it's five scholarships for two years and a one year bowl ban, that pain will go away almost immediately. I would gladly accept a couple of 9-3 or 8-4 seasons in return for a decade of dominance. Anyone would.

I compare college football with my observations from the corporate world. If my company would repeatedly violate an environmental permit, we wouild get a beating from the government that far exceeds any cost savings that we would have gotten by violating. If we would systematically fail to report or monitor, we would get a beating. We would get such a beating that there's no way that the company could survive without a significant change in culture and management. That's the purpose of the beatings.

College athletics is mostly different. Cheating still looks like a winning proposition, even when you get caught. The penalty rarely exceeds the benefit. Either that needs to change, or the NCAA needs to just toss in the towel on amateur athletics and accept it for what it's become.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I think around 2013-2014 USC is going to be short around 30 scholarship players. That's a LOT

[WM Wolverine]

I'm told that USC is short 10 scholarships a year; e.g. can sign only 15 recruits maximum and is limited to 75 scholarship players. Those 15 recruits a year max (if true) means it'll be hard to stay at that 75 scholarship limit. Not exactly devastating but pretty damaging punishments. This will hurt USC who still gets 1st choice of all the Cali talent less than it'll hurt other schools who don't have access to the same caliber of talent.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I think they are losing 10 schoalrships a year for three straight years. By Year 3 of the sanctions they should be forced to 30 fewer scholarship players than other programs will be allowed to have

[Hannibal]

USC has gotten 48 commitments in the past two classes. If you add three classes of 15, that makes a theoretical max of 93 guys that could be fifth year seniors when the sanctions are done with. I don't know how many guys redshirted from the '10 class, but if you assume that half of them stay for five years, that gets you down to 84. Normal attrition on top of that probably gets you into the low 70s/high 60s. That's my understanding of the rules, at least. Tough, I guess, but not enough for a good coach to do worse than 7-5.

[WM Wolverine]

I've been told by someone who follows USC closely (Pac 12 guy) what I said above, 75 scholarship max till '14, 15 scholarships a year and they'l hard difficulty keeping 75 a year if attrition is high. Class of '15 back to 25 scholarships a year, 85 max which they'll have great difficulty still getting to the max.

[entropy]

I've been told by someone who follows USC closely (Pac 12 guy) what I said above, 75 scholarship max till '14, 15 scholarships a year and they'l hard difficulty keeping 75 a year if attrition is high. Class of '15 back to 25 scholarships a year, 85 max which they'll have great difficulty still getting to the max.

this is how I understand it.

[Jamie H]

Cheating still looks like a winning proposition, even when you get caught. The penalty rarely exceeds the benefit. Either that needs to change, or the NCAA needs to just toss in the towel on amateur athletics and accept it for what it's become.

Agree 100%.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Looks like UNC may have a "dealership problem" as well

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/06/24/1298282/unc-confirms-greg-little-received.html

[SeanB]

As much as we've enjoyed hurling stones at osu, it really seems as if this kind of stuff is going on just about everywhere. I say "just about", because there are surely some clean programs, but college football is in a very sad state when it comes to benefits. It is awash in dirty money, cheating and scandals.

It's just a matter of getting that one pebble to start rolling...

[entropy]

continued happiness in the Big12

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/27/texas-aandm-bolting-to-the-sec-is-just-a-matter-of-time/