The Rest of College Football

[Hannibal]

People tend to go a little lighter on you when you don't lie on compliance forms and sweep problems under the rug over and over again ala Jim Tressel and OSU. $27,000 spread across seven players? Christ, those guys are pikers compared to Bush and Pryor.

(But don't get me wrong. UNC deserves a major beating for John Blake alone).

[Dr. Strangelove]

People tend to go a little lighter on you when you don't lie on compliance forms and sweep problems under the rug over and over again ala Jim Tressel and OSU. $27,000 spread across seven players? Christ, those guys are pikers compared to Bush and Pryor.

(But don't get me wrong. UNC deserves a major beating for John Blake alone).

$27,000 spread across several players is only part of the story as I already mentioned. They're also dealing with academic fraud commited by a tutor that Butch Davis himself brought into the program and of course, you have a member of the coaching staff being a paid go-between with an NFL agent.

Tressel covered up some small violations that nevertheless would've made players ineligible. IMO, that's not as serious as a coach being secretly paid to steer kids to an agent who would "hook them up"

And I think USC got a bit of a raw deal because the NCAA never conclusively proved that there was a connection between USC and Bush's handouts. The NCAA came down on them hard for their arrogant attitude and simply said "oh, well, you SHOULD have known what Bush's parents were up to". Yet I see ignorant people on the net all time claiming USC was found guilty of paying players.

[Hannibal]

USC maybe got a raw deal in terms of what was concretely proven, but circumstantially, that program had been shady for a long time. Violations usually stick to an iceberg pattern. If you can see something big, you can bet that it's only a fraction of what's there. I don't think that you can get a violator as extreme as Reggie Bush without a culture that doesn't at least tacitly endorse it.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The NCAA grilled USC for 4 years and the best they could do was "well, you SHOULD have known what Reggie's dad was receiving from an agent". Or at least I should say, that's all they really had on USC football. And for that they got hammered.

[WM Wolverine]

USC got hammered for basically stonewalling any type of investigation, they weren't the least bit cooperative.

[JRB]

The five most important things the NCAA had with respect to the USC case, outside of the violations themselves, were: 1)Knowledge of the violations by at least one member of the coaching staffs involved(inarguable with respect to the basketball violations, likely with respect to the football violations), 2) uncooperative and misleading witnesses on behalf of the school, 3) the applicability of the repeat violator clause, 4)violations in multiple sports, and 5) as WM Wolverine just noted, an openly intransigent and ineffective athletic compliance effort.

The first two of these factors clearly apply in both the UNC and OSU cases(the first three apply to OSU), and both schools are looking at serious penalties as a result. The fourth condition, as far as we know, doesn't apply to either UNC or OSU. The hopes of UNC and OSU to avoid USC's penalties rests in their ability to convince the NCAA that the fifth of these conditions does not apply as well. USC's understaffed compliance department, and the defiant attitude of USC's athletics administration, directly led to their lack of institutional control charge, and this, I suspect, brought about the harshness of their punishment at least as much as the amounts given to Reggie Bush and O.J. Mayo did. The committee on infractions specifically stated that USC's level of cooperation did not warrant any relief with respect to their penalties. Based on what I know right now, I'd think UNC and OSU will avoid LOIC charges(though I'm not sure UNC deserves to avoid that charge), and that their penalties will be somewhat lighter as a result. But I doubt "somewhat lighter" will equate to "easily managed and overcome." Both UNC and OSU are facing potentially crippling sanctions.

[Hannibal]

But there are some major factors present in the OSU case that weren't present with USC. The first of them being the smoking gun with Tressel's lying and cover-up. The second being the long, long history of smoke pouring out of the program, with a repeated pattern where violations coming to light and then worthless "investigations" clear the program of any wrongdoing. The third being the almost comical level of conspicuousness and the huge volume of players involved. The fourth being the astonishing lack of contrition or outrage on the part of Gordon Gee and Gene Smith. No culture of compliance, a coach who gets caught breaking the rules, and an administration who doesn't give a shit. A more textbook example of the phrase "Loss of Institutional Control" does not exist. The OSU football case easily trumps the USC football case. The only area where USC might win is the dollar value involved with the biggest player. Even that one is in doubt now. I won't be shocked if OSU gets off lighter than USC, but if the NCAA lets OSU off without something that is painful for at least a few years, it will be a green light for everyone in the country to cheat.

[Dr. Strangelove]

But there are some major factors present in the OSU case that weren't present with USC. The first of them being the smoking gun with Tressel's lying and cover-up. The second being the long, long history of smoke pouring out of the program, with a repeated pattern where violations coming to light and then worthless "investigations" clear the program of any wrongdoing. The third being the almost comical level of conspicuousness and the huge volume of players involved. The fourth being the astonishing lack of contrition or outrage on the part of Gordon Gee and Gene Smith. No culture of compliance, a coach who gets caught breaking the rules, and an administration who doesn't give a shit. A more textbook example of the phrase "Loss of Institutional Control" does not exist. The OSU football case easily trumps the USC football case. The only area where USC might win is the dollar value involved with the biggest player. Even that one is in doubt now. I won't be shocked if OSU gets off lighter than USC, but if the NCAA lets OSU off without something that is painful for at least a few years, it will be a green light for everyone in the country to cheat.

This is just the hope and dreams of a Michigan homer speaking.

USC was given probably the most severe penalties of any Div-1 program since SMU. I doubt we are given the same level and I think even the NCAA grudgingly realizes it may have gone a bit overboard on USC. Personally, I don't think the actual established facts rose to level of punishment that they got. The NCAA was just pissed that USC didn't bow and scrape before them.

[Hannibal]

I think even the NCAA grudgingly realizes it may have gone a bit overboard on USC.

I guess that explains why USC just won their appeal.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Well they can't acknowledge their inconsistency publicly, no

[JRB]

As inept as Ohio State's initial response to the allegations was, I don't know that the institution's attitude is going to be considered worse than USC's-- it'd be tough to botch the public response to an NCAA investigation more completely than Mike Garrett did. Todd MacNair was found guilty of violating Rule 10.1, as well, though I'd agree Tressel's stature as head coach and repeated violation of the rule over a lengthy period of time make the OSU violation of that rule worse. But ultimately, I think Ohio State's going to face a failure to monitor charge, not LOIC, because there's sufficient evidence to suggest that Ohio State had a significant compliance framework in place. USC got buried in large part because they'd gutted their compliance office to the point that the school couldn't have detected all of their violations even if the compliance office had been diligently looking. USC ran its compliance office as if the AD didn't want to know what was going on.

Now I might be wrong. Tressel's involvement in the Youngstown State case might be factored against him, and OSU probably will be held to a higher compliance standard because of Terrelle Pryor, given the NCAA's recent insistence that "high-profile recruits demand high-profile compliance." The long history of secondary violations could work in Ohio State's favor("see, our compliance office is vigilant"), or it could factor against them("but see, your compliance office has to be vigilant an awful lot"). I really think the difference lies in the LOIC charge, and as of now, with no violations reported in other sports and no indication that OSU's compliance office was structurally deficient or uncooperative, I think the OSU and UNC cases resemble each other more than they do USC's. Since UNC has somehow avoided the LOIC charge, I think Ohio State will, too. That's not to say, though, that the penalties aren't going to be severe-- Michigan wasn't even charged with failure to monitor in the Ed Martin case, and Michigan basketball still got hammered. Of course, Michigan was charged with failure to monitor in the football practice violations case, and nothing much came of that, so perhaps I'm making too much of the institutional failure component here.

[JRB]

USC's scholarship penalties didn't quite match those levied on Miami in 1995(where the institutional wrongdoing was unquestionably more blatant), but given the recent spate of scandals, and Mark Emmert's insistence that enforcement needs to be ratcheted up and penalties need to be toughened, I wouldn't automatically assume that the USC penalties represent some outer boundary beyond which the NCAA will dare not go. That sounds to me like an Ohio State homer trying to convince himself that the worst-case scenario isn't possible.

[entropy]

personally, I think USC got off light. If the NCAA wants to stop blatant cheating, you don't have to go death penalty, but making a team disappear for 10 years will do it.

[Hannibal]

As inept as Ohio State's initial response to the allegations was, I don't know that the institution's attitude is going to be considered worse than USC's-- it'd be tough to botch the public response to an NCAA investigation more completely than Mike Garrett did. Todd MacNair was found guilty of violating Rule 10.1, as well, though I'd agree Tressel's stature as head coach and repeated violation of the rule over a lengthy period of time make the OSU violation of that rule worse. But ultimately, I think Ohio State's going to face a failure to monitor charge, not LOIC, because there's sufficient evidence to suggest that Ohio State had a significant compliance framework in place. USC got buried in large part because they'd gutted their compliance office to the point that the school couldn't have detected all of their violations even if the compliance office had been diligently looking. USC ran its compliance office as if the AD didn't want to know what was going on.

There's a much broader definition of LOIC than that. Here's a document describing it...

http://compliance.pac-10.org/thetools/instctl.pdf

Specifically, focus on "C. ACTS THAT ARE LIKELY TO DEMONSTRATE A LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL."

2. A person with compliance responsibilities does not take steps to alter the
system of compliance when there are indications the system is not working.

Ding!

5. The institution fails to make clear, by its words and its actions, that those personnel who willfully violate NCAA rules, or who are grossly negligent in applying those rules, will be disciplined and made subject to discharge.

Ding! "Fire Tressel? I hope he doesn't fire me!" fits perfectly into this one.

8. A head coach fails to create and maintain an atmosphere for compliance within the program the coach supervises or fails to monitor the activities of assistant coaches regarding compliance.

Ding!

The concept of LOIC exists so that programs can't ignore rules violations and then escape with plausible deniability or by constantly distancing themselves from one scapegoat after another. If OSU does not get hit with LOIC, the phrase might as well not exist.

[JRB]

It will be interesting to see if Gordon Gee's exquisitely stupid response in that press conference gets held against Ohio State. I tend to think it will be dismissed as a tone-deaf flippant remark, given that Tressel has resigned. The head coaching admonition ought to apply, but it would certainly apply in the UNC case as well, and UNC isn't facing a LOIC charge as of now.

I'm not arguing that Ohio State couldn't under the letter of the law be charged with lack of institutional control-- Tressel essentially perpetrated a fraud on the NCAA in order to get his players eligible for the Sugar Bowl, and that will not received well by the COI. I am certain Ohio State's going to get hit with significant penalties. I just think there's going to have to be compelling evidence of systemic compliance failure for a LOIC charge to be levied in this case. That evidence may be forthcoming, for all I know.