The Rest of College Football

[AlabamAlum]

USC doesn’t need another Pete Carroll to be good but they need something a bit better than Clay fucking Helton. Personally, I hope they don’t get an Urban or a Bob Stoops or whatever because right now Ohio State and Clemson are the only people Alabama has to worry about year in and year out (with maybe Oklahoma on the outside looking in). Sure, LSU can win a championship and maybe Georgia will get there, but consistently challenging us for recruits and championships? Nah. Not anyone else for several years and I would rather keep it that way.

[Hannibal]

Historically, in no particular order, the top programs are Bama, Ohio State, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska, Penn State, and Tennessee on the outside looking in. Those latter 4 or 5 are hard to grade because it’s just been so long since the they were relevant (recency bias). Anyway, An argument can be made for and against USC being top 5. But arguing 7th or 8th instead of 4th or 5th or whatever is silly because there is no agreed upon calculus of metrics.

And I absolutely think it’s easier to win at USC than LSU. LSU plays in the SEC West. USC faces shitball PAC-12 teams.

Nothing wrong with recency bias in today's day and age, when history and tradition are evaporating, giving way to an endless present. That's going to leave old timer powerhouses like Tennessee, Michigan, and Nebraska a lot worse off and less able to recover from a down period than FSU or Florida, where any clown can fall out of bed and at least land a Top 20 class. I still think that USC is a tougher climb than the big major state universities in sun belt states like LSU, UF, or FSU, owing mostly to meh fan enthusiasm and the generally shitty California sports stadium atmosphere. And I would add OSU to that list because they have a ton of in-state talent with absolutely no in-state competition, and only one legitimate competitor for recruits within 100 miles of the state's borders. The worst coach that they have had in the past 60 years won 70% of his games. Not many places can say that they bottomed out there.

[Dr. Strangelove]

A lot of you were alive in the late 70's. I was not. But Tennessee's distance from it's "era of greatness" is basically the same as where Minnesota would have been in 1978. Did you think of Minnesota as a powerhouse back then?

Although "best job" is different than best program because I could put A&M in a top 10 of best jobs. Fuck no as to best programs.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I would not put Florida State in the top 10 anymore in terms of best jobs OR alltime best programs. Bobby's last half-decade was mediocre at best and they've been shit since Jimbo left. Tallahassee is a shithole compared with most SEC towns or Miami.

[AlabamAlum]

As far as recency, Carroll’s 9 years at USC ended in 2008 or 2009 (memory fails me). That’s relatively recent.

And, again, LSU having to face the SEC West vs USC facing the Pac-12 South is huge. Hell, Florida facing the SEC East is a tougher road than USC. I’ll give you Florida State, though.

Cali has a ton of bluechips, and even under Clay fucking Helton, USC is still top ten total team talent. As far as raucous fan involvement, it will wane with shitty teams. It was acceptable under Carroll. They start winning with a competent coach, and it will pick up.

[AlabamAlum]

A lot of you were alive in the late 70's. I was not. But Tennessee's distance from it's "era of greatness" is basically the same as where Minnesota would have been in 1978. Did you think of Minnesota as a powerhouse back then?

Although "best job" is different than best program because I could put A&M in a top 10 of best jobs. Fuck no as to best programs.

Tennessee had a good 1990’s. They've been dead since.

and I agree about Florida State.

[Dr. Strangelove]

How far up would you rank Clemson? I hate to say it but their recent decade is almost as good a run as Bowden in the 90's, and they have a much better ancient history than Florida State has.

Of course, they are also a sorry bunch of cheaters.

[AlabamAlum]

I think they are still outside the top 10, but they won’t be for long.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I'm pretty committed to (no order)

Alabama
Oklahoma
Texas
Notre Dame
Ohio State
USC
LSU

After that the last 3 of the top 10 get hard for me. Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, FSU, Miami, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, Clemson....

[AlabamAlum]

I'm pretty committed to (no order)

Alabama
Oklahoma
Texas
Notre Dame
Ohio State
USC
LSU

After that the last 3 of the top 10 get hard for me. Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, FSU, Miami, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, Clemson....

That’s a reasonable list.

You can come up with criteria like NCs, Win%, wins vs top 10, most weeks at #1, and probably several other things and try to come up with a formula (and others have), but having consensus on what’s important to count and how it’s weighted is just a big argument that no one can win.

[iam416]

I think Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma and Notre Dame are your top 4. You could argue for any of those, but The Nick has given UAT the strongest case.

The next group is M, USC and Texas. M was in the top group until the last 20 years.

Then I'd have Nebraska and Penn State. UNL was a group up, as well, until the Post-Dr. Tom years. Clemson is probably pretty close to this group.

I feel pretty confident in making the foregoing case on almost any set of criteria.

In terms of the best jobs, I think one of the things that gets overlooked is the institutional and booster situation. It's very easy to say "Texas--GREAT JOB!" until you start wondering if it's such a great job then why are they 16th in winning percentage over the last 30 years? M fans are quick to point out that coaches faces certain institutional issues (certainly, RichGOD did). That's obviously hard to discuss because not many folks are familiar with some sort of ethereal institutional/booster/fan culture of every school. But, I see red flags where programs aren't winning as much as they should for prolonged periods of time.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Hanni's comment about traditions being assailed by the culture canceling and I want it now generations weigh heavily on any kind of ranking of CFBs best programs. Over 60s are going to see listings of the best CFB programs differently than the under 30s.

[iam416]

Well, sure. And if you were to rate the best programs NOW the list would be different. All-time is All-time and, sadly, that includes pre-Great War results. I think there are 5 programs that have be very consistent for a very long time. M got dropped to #5 for me because they don't have the contemporaneously awarded MNCs the other 4 do. My personal top 5:

1. Alabama
2t. Notre Dame
2t. Ohio State
4. Oklahoma
5. M

I think UAT is solidly #1 thanks to The Nick. I think ND and Ohio State are exceptionally close. I think OU is a little behind both those schools and I think M is a solid 5th.

For someone who is in their 30s, you're still looking at UAT and OSU and probably OU. But Clemson for sure. And maybe LSU. But that's just a snapshot. In 1995 we would have been talking about Miami, Nebraska and Florida State as the 3 dominant programs w/ Florida nipping at their heels.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Yale should be #1 all-time. Goddamn millennials and their short-term memories

[iam416]

I always knew "Dr." Strangelove secretly harbored adulation bordering on the sycophantic for his New Haven betters.