The Rest of College Football

[lineygoblue]

Carr seemed to lose his passion for coaching sometime around the 2003-2004 season. And after Bo died, he was pretty much a shell of his former self. I agree he probably should have hung it up somewhere around 2004.

[Jeff Buchanan]

...... he wanted to. Martin begged him to stay. That position was the start of the fall from grace.

Stupid and M football paid the price.

[UMStan White]

"For the record...... I love Lloyd. But, damn, you and I were both tired of his game conservatism and off-tackle-left mentality."

True Dat!

[WM Wolverine]

re: M going 8-4 and being mediocrity...

That's what I foresaw from M if Lloyd Carr stuck around post '07, which is tons better than what we received from RR. However I just saw the talent level getting weaker and weaker and closer to the 'average' B1G team. The coaching staff as a whole seemed to get weaker and weaker which is why we didn't see a branch from the Lloyd Carr coaching tree step-in when he retired.

[WM Wolverine]

I believe Carr wanted to retire just one season earlier. No idea how things turn out in terms of who ends up coaching at M... Here is a very short list of guys who took new jobs in '07:

*Bama (Saban)
*Cincy (Kelly)
*Sparty (Dantonio)
*Stanford (Harbaugh)

With just one major program that had a vacancy, it makes sense there wasn't many big names available (Saban) or took a new position...

As I've said before, what Kelly did at Cincy took him out of any consideration for any HC job at M, this is coming from insiders at rivals (back when they had good sources.) Surprised ND took Kelly despite myself having no question about his ability as a coach. Dantonio was a Buckeye and Michigan would've been the last place he would've went. Harbaugh just coming from San Diego (Div II I think) likely wouldn't have been an option...

Regardless, when a job like M, ND, Florida, Texas, Ohio State, USC, Bama, Georgia, Oklahoma, Penn State, etc. is available; you have far more options and guys are willing to leave places you wouldn't expect like RR did with WVU...

[UMStan White]

What did Kelly do at Clncy? I thought it was what he did at Central that made him a marked man.

[WM Wolverine]

I meant at CMU of course.

[klondike]

Lloyd could never beat Tressel, his biggest bad legacy. That And losing to Appy.

I liked Carr but Damn was he predictable. Even when he tried to be unpredictable it was in a predictable way. He had great players to get away with it most the time. In a way always tring to do things the Michigan Way was a hindrance at times.

[Hannibal]

Lloyd goes from a net positive to a breakeven for me by losing to Appalachian State, and he went negative for me when RichRod was hired. He signed the papers to let one of our starting offensive linemen transfer to a conference rival. No other program would let that happen. Can anyone imagine Ohio State letting someone transfer to UM? Fuck him and fuck his shitty coordinators and fuck Bill Martin for begging him to stay after his expiration date and fuck the group hug with Harbaugh.

[*JD*]

Lloyd could never beat Tressel, his biggest bad legacy. That And losing to Appy.

On the bright side, we know Saint Jim had to cheat to get that talent.

[hack]

Lloyd goes from a net positive to a breakeven for me by losing to Appalachian State, and he went negative for me when RichRod was hired. He signed the papers to let one of our starting offensive linemen transfer to a conference rival. No other program would let that happen. Can anyone imagine Ohio State letting someone transfer to UM? Fuck him and fuck his shitty coordinators and fuck Bill Martin for begging him to stay after his expiration date and fuck the group hug with Harbaugh.

I hate to say it, because man was '97 as wonderful as wonderful gets, but Lloyd really hurt his own legacy by being all about ethics until he was all about dirty tricks.

[lineygoblue]

Lloyd really hurt his own legacy by being all about ethics until he was all about dirty tricks.

Absolutely.

[THE_WIZARD_]

1997 was great...your runner up trophy is a great accomplishment...

::::runs::::

[lineygoblue]

illegal kick

[Hannibal]

I hate to say it, because man was '97 as wonderful as wonderful gets, but Lloyd really hurt his own legacy by being all about ethics until he was all about dirty tricks.

I think that's as good a way of putting it as any. Harbaugh does seem to have a little better grip on the balance between "ethics" and "performance", for what it's worth.