The Rest of College Football

[Dr. Strangelove]

At least 3 of the 5 P5 conferences are on the record as opposing oversigning, grayshirting, and at least two want to enforce 4-year-scholarships. I am not sure where the ACC stands.

It's only the SEC, and the SEC West in particular, and their passionate adherents, that defend 1-year scholarships that can be yanked away for any reason and 37-member signing classes...and even more pathetically insist that these are actually good for student welfare.

[iam416]

There are some loopholes

One Alabam"Alum's" greatest understatements.

[AlabamAlum]

At least 3 of the 5 P5 conferences are on the record as opposing oversigning, grayshirting, and at least two want to enforce 4-year-scholarships. I am not sure where the ACC stands.

It's only the SEC, and the SEC West in particular, and their passionate adherents, that defend 1-year scholarships that can be yanked away for any reason and 37-member signing classes...and even more pathetically insist that these are actually good for student welfare.

* Don't confuse a commitment list with who actually signs a NLI. The SEC allows 25. There are no 37-member classes. The maximum is 28, by NCAA rule.

* Athletic Scholarships are indeed 1-year deals. Most non-tenured faculty at a university are given one year deals, too. And many -if not most- academic scholarships are one-year deals. Athletes who decide to not go to practice or the weight room or who get in trouble with the police know they will be dropped.

*Grayshirting? Meh. It's not the animal that people think it is. As long as the student is told upfront, I'm fine with it. Here is a fair article on it:

http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/story?id=10430908

In the end, as I said earlier, either follow the NCAA rule as written, or work to make a more stringent NCAA rule, or happily live with the higher standards that you self impose.

[iam416]

Heh. Georgia signed 33 in 2013. We all know how it works. Kids leave your program, you backdate enough of the class with EEs to get down to whatever the number has to be and move on.

How you get kids to leave and when your class has to be at the number matters.

Anyway, the numbers bear out that the SEC, on average, signs roughly one class more of players than other schools every 5 years. It's all kosher with the rules, but those are the numbers. And you obviously know that and would simply respond..."get down in the muck with us if you have a problem."

I should also note I don't have the numbers for the last year (or two) -- so perhaps the new SEC rules will and have reduce the discrepancy. There's no doubt, however, that from, say 2007-2011 or 2012, the above is true.

[AlabamAlum]

Heh. Georgia signed 33 in 2013. We all know how it works. Kids leave your program, you backdate enough of the class with EEs to get down to whatever the number has to be and move on.

How you get kids to leave and when your class has to be at the number matters.

Anyway, the numbers bear out that the SEC, on average, signs roughly one class more of players than other schools every 5 years. It's all kosher with the rules, but those are the numbers. And you obviously know that and would simply respond..."get down in the muck with us if you have a problem."

I should also note I don't have the numbers for the last year (or two) -- so perhaps the new SEC rules will and have reduce the discrepancy. There's no doubt, however, that from, say 2007-2011 or 2012, the above is true.

If you grayshirt, it counts against the next class. If you early enrollment, it counts on the previous. The numbers have to allow it. Check UGA's site and see how many of those 33 you see on Rivals Commitment list actually signed and are on the roster. Spoiler: it's 24.

[AlabamAlum]

The advantage (before the SEC's rule change) was mainly this:

Say you have 10 players who are beasts physically, but have Wizard's room temp IQ, and you know that only 40% or so will qualify. And you only have 4 roster spots available. You could sign all 10 to a NLI, get the 3 or 4 who qualify and send the other 6 or 7 to junior college. This practice enabled you to recruit academic risks without it being detrimental if they didn't qualify. It was a real advantage. And Slive has done a lot to end it in the SEC.

[iam416]

The B10 also has a hard cap of 28. So, even if you could backdate the EEs like Georgia did, you could only sign 28. And if you go over your 25/85, you need to submit something to the conference explaining how you'll get down to 25/85 by August.

So the hard cap is a bit of a discouragement to the practice of getting kids to leave the program to open up spots, but it is, IMO, a marginal detriment to the B10. The real advantage was as you described.

Of course, the REAL advantage is the extent to which one believes the SEC West dabbles in buying recruits. But that's speculative. Oxford is a beautiful place and ol' Freeze is a top notch recruiter.

[entropy]

The Rest of CF

Scholarships need to be 4 yrs. period


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[Hannibal]

Everyone faces the risk of players washing out or not qualifyng. Michigan and Ohio State target 85 for signing day and live with the inevitable risk. The SEC West targets 90+ on signing day and then makes sure the attrition happens.

[Mike]

Either mirror the policies of others, or work to make a more stringent NCAA rule, or happily live with the standards that you self imposed.

I agree. There needs to be a more stringent standard so that you can't drive a bulldozer through the loopholes. Unfortunately, due to the SEC's unsavory practices, the NCAA should mandate 4 year scholarships and clamp down on the "weeding out" process to get down to the 25/85 numbers.

However, since I recognize the reality that the NCAA will do no such thing, anyone who wants to take the high road and pat themselves on the back for scoring points with ethics professors can continue to look up at the SEC in the weekly polls and ponder their lot. I don't know how much longer we can claim a "national champion" in a sport where each league makes it's own rules. It's silly. Maybe the Big Ten should award 10 points per touchdown in league games to boost our scoring totals. I bet if Michigan were awarded 7 plays to gain a first down we could be competitive.

[AlabamAlum]

Scholarships need to be 4 yrs. period


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I disagree. But if the rules are changed, it wouldn't be something that meant much competitively. Do you think the conferences who offer the 4-yr deals have seen a spike in recruiting? It should be something that you can use as a recruiting edge. "We offer a 4-yr deal. That other school just offers a 1-yr renewable."

Everyone faces the risk of players washing out or not qualifyng. Michigan and Ohio State target 85 for signing day and live with the inevitable risk. The SEC West targets 90+ on signing day and then makes sure the attrition happens.

The SEC can only sign 25 per year to a NLI now (not including gratshirts, which count toward the next class - and early enrollments which count to the previous). The numbers have to be in the 25/85 mandate. In EACH of those years.

But if college football wants to mandate no grayshirts - and no redshirts (a topic that gets less pub but is still a hardship for some students)- and require signing to four year deals, fine. I have no doubt that Bama would still be successful. Until then, I have no moral issue with any of those current practices mentioned. I view this like I view my taxes. My CPA pays every cent I am required to pay and not one cent more. Sheltered income? Sure. Making sure I get every deduction allowed? Absolutely. I will play by the rules and not feel bad even if my percentage paid is lower than what others think I should pay. Change the rules to have me pay more and I will do it, but I won't think of myself as a better person because of it.

[AlabamAlum]

I agree. There needs to be a more stringent standard so that you can't drive a bulldozer through the loopholes. Unfortunately, due to the SEC's unsavory practices, the NCAA should mandate 4 year scholarships and clamp down on the "weeding out" process to get down to the 25/85 numbers.

However, since I recognize the reality that the NCAA will do no such thing, anyone who wants to take the high road and pat themselves on the back for scoring points with ethics professors can continue to look up at the SEC in the weekly polls and ponder their lot. I don't know how much longer we can claim a "national champion" in a sport where each league makes it's own rules. It's silly. Maybe the Big Ten should award 10 points per touchdown in league games to boost our scoring totals. I bet if Michigan were awarded 7 plays to gain a first down we could be competitive.

Slive closed many of the SEC's loopholes.

I am more familiar with Bama. Of the people who leave before graduation, I know of none who were forced out to make a roster spot for a better player. Under Saban, the majority of our attrition is for players leaving early for the NFL and leaving for another school for more playing time. Throw on the odd medical hardships, academic casualties, and legal cases and you have the balance of the early departures.

My first two degrees were on academic scholarships. I received several awards, most were essentially one-year renewables. I had to maintain a GPA, and a couple made me reapply annually.

[entropy]

The Rest of CF

IMO if scholarships are one yr then kids should be able to transfer each yr without penalty. Kids commit to schools and the schools should commit to the kids.


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[entropy]

The Rest of CF

And those are just general NCAA comments.


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[entropy]

The Rest of CF

Halftime.

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