The Rest of College Football

[Optimus Prime]

3-9 still must get you fired.

Brandon should have kept him after he failed to land Harbaugh or Miles.

RR had plenty of leverage over Martin, if you want me I need proper cash to hire a DC, otherwise I stay in WV.

Hell we are going to pay 2 million just for the privilege of firing Hoke.

Amazing how quibbling over 1 million+ has hamstrung a program for almost a decade.

[lineygoblue]

That's the difference with Rodriguez now. He's got Jeff Casteel with him, who actually understands that 3-3-5 defense, and how to coach it.

I say congrats to Rodriguez as well. Winning at Autzen is tough. Just ask Sparty.

[hack]

We'll see how it turns out, but I still have a hard time believing that the difference between Rich Rod being a disaster or a success is Casteel. He ran a program that was utter shit here. He did one or two key things right that made a big difference in running a good offense, obviously starting with getting Denard, but I don't think any coordinator can truly rescue a bad HC from himself. As we are learning now with another HC.

Then again, when you're running these big offenses and you expect scores in the 30s, maybe the special teams difference is not so huge, and Casteel makes a bigger impact than just taking care of one of the three legs of the stool.

[lineygoblue]

Well, he's taken a middling Arizona team, and in about 3 years, has them undefeated, having beaten the "glamour" school Oregon 2 years in a row, and in contention for not just the Pac 12 title, but also a berth in the playoffs.

There's still a long way to go, but Rodriguez is doing better at Arizona than I thought he would.

And I wouldn't want Michigan to play Arizona right now.

[UMStan White]

"I don't think any coordinator can truly rescue a bad HC from himself. As we are learning now with another HC."

Amen

[hack]

Well, he's taken a middling Arizona team, and in about 3 years, has them undefeated, having beaten the "glamour" school Oregon 2 years in a row, and in contention for not just the Pac 12 title, but also a berth in the playoffs.

There's still a long way to go, but Rodriguez is doing better at Arizona than I thought he would.

And I wouldn't want Michigan to play Arizona right now.

I'm happy for him. He got a raw deal at Michigan, and on the odd chance that somebody in Ann Arbor takes notice and has the ability to help the program learn from this, it's great. But I wouldn't want him back.

[Hannibal]

RichRod didn't get a raw deal at Michigan. The crowd was chanting his name when he beat Western Michigan and he was the toast of the town when he was 4-0 in 2009. He was a pathetic 6-18 in the Big Ten. He lost his last two games by a combined score of 89-21. Purdue's third string QB put up 500 yards and 48 points on us in his first year. That was a month after a 5-7 Illinois team ran us off the field at home. Penn State's walk-on put up 300 yards passing in his first start in RichRod's last year. His attention to special teams and defense was a fucking joke. He was a whopping -32 on turnovers in his three years at Michigan. -33 in 27 games against B1G + ND. That's astoundingly bad.

Here is RichRod's 2011 recruiting class on the day that he was fired:

Greg Brown
Delonte Hollowell
Brennan Beyer
Chris Rock
Jack Miller
Kellen Jones
Tony Posada
Justice hayes
Desmond Morgan
Blake Countess

The only guys who ended up in the class who committed after Hoke was hired and probably would have committed anyways were Rawls and Bryant.

He left the cupboard absolutely bare in the trenches for Hoke. I am not excusing Hoke's piss poor player development, but he should be playing poorly developed seniors instead of poorly developed sophomores right now. RichRod's recruiting was abysmal by the time he was fired.

RichRod was an absolutely terrrible terrible coach at Michigan. I don't know why he was a terrible coach at Michigan and he has been better than terrible at Arizona. Finally getting rid of Tony Gibson has probably helped tremendously. Maybe the humbling Michigan experience made him less arrogant and stubborn.

[iam416]

RichGOD was a bad fit for M and, as far as I understand, he faced a number of obstacles that a HC probably shouldn't have to face. He was always a very good offensive coach (and still is). That's a significant +1 over Coach Hoke who, IMO, would be a lousy coordinator on either side of the ball. But, he was recalcitrant in his handling of the defense. And I'm still not sure he can ever make a program truly elite. He has a strong offensive system and recruits well for it, but at some point his relative lack of talent runs into a team that's just better. Way better.

He's a far better coach that Coach Hoke as evidenced by their respective careers. But he wasn't the right guy for M. It does seem like he's learned from his mistakes and experience at M.

[hack]

RichRod was an absolutely terrrible terrible coach at Michigan. I don't know why he was a terrible coach at Michigan and he has been better than terrible at Arizona. Finally getting rid of Tony Gibson has probably helped tremendously. Maybe the humbling Michigan experience made him less arrogant and stubborn.


Or maybe he got a raw deal at Michigan. It's no secret that he was undermined from the get-go. No sense pretending he wasn't, or that it might not have had an impact.

[Hannibal]

The only area in which I might concede it had an impact was in recruiting. If you think that it's Lloyd Carr's fault that Justin Siller shredded us for 521 yards of total offense and 48 points, then I don't know what to tell you.

Remember RichRod's first year, when absolutely nobody on the team could catch a punt? People have short memories, apparently. His teams lost 45 fucking fumbles in three years.

[hack]

We'll see how it turns out, but I still have a hard time believing that the difference between Rich Rod being a disaster or a success is Casteel. He ran a program that was utter shit here. He did one or two key things right that made a big difference in running a good offense, obviously starting with getting Denard, but I don't think any coordinator can truly rescue a bad HC from himself. As we are learning now with another HC.

Must I bend over backwards in order to just make the point that our program is dysfunctional and has been for a while and shouldn't be?

[Optimus Prime]

RR didn't get a "raw deal", he simply failed to deliver the goods. Win or STFU.

Had it gone 7-5 while retooling & 9+ wins and in the BCS hunt on a regular basis, like Fielding Yost, his West Virginia roots would have been quickly forgotten.

Win MNC and he's as much a "Michigan Man" as Bo or in the case of Hack, a "Michigan Woman".

[hack]

Yost died in '46 and the BCS began in '98, so, in following along with the way things are in this discussion, I'm going to use that tangential tidbit to assert that everything anyone but me is saying here is wrong. You all should smarten up already. And some of you should just be content with who you really are. No matter how you feel about the outside, you are beautiful inside.

[Optimus Prime]

Yost did nothing but win at Michigan as his overall 198–35–12 records indicates, including 6 National Championships, unfathomable success in any era.

The BCS benchmark for accomplishment is our modern-day measuring stick for success, was anyway.

You are not retarded Hack, just Gay & obstinate, now smarten up.

[Hannibal]

Must I bend over backwards in order to just make the point that our program is dysfunctional and has been for a while and shouldn't be?

With RichRod, I see so much utter failure and so many terrible decisions that I can't chalk it all up to the program's culture no matter how hard I try.

How many of the muffed punts, lost fumbles, and blown coverages of the RichRod era are attributable to our dysfunctional culture? There's enough blame to spread around for his failures and he deserves lots of it.