The Rest of College Football

[Hannibal]

I would say that there's plenty that you can clearly pin on Rodriguez. In his first year, a 4-8 Purdue team led by their third string QB (who was practicing at WR a couple of weeks earlier) shredded a junior and senior-laden Michigan defense for 520 yards. I listed all of RichRod's monumental, catastrophic failures further up the thread. It's not a huge stretch to say that it's Carr's fault that Justin Boren transferred, but it's a huge stretch to say that the 45 lost fumbles and -32 turnover margin of the Rodriguez era are Carr's fault. Rodriguez was terrible at choosing defensive assistants and he tried to ram the 3-3-5 down Scott Shafer's throat when what he should have done was tell Shafer to run whatever defense he wanted and hire the assistants that he wanted. There is no amount of support that would ever make Tony Gibson a competent assistant. He was God awful. Ditto for Jay Hopson.

[chemiclord]

Um... his defense gave up 45 points a game. You can't just say that's because he couldn't have Casteel. Schafer was screwed by Rich Rod's buddies who were the assistant defensive coaches. That's Rich Rod's fault.

He was screwed over by U-M administration refusing to pony up for Casteel as well as doing things like, "Oh sure! We've totally accepted that defensive recruit you doggedly pursued! Move forward, young man! Okay... is he still there? No? Good. Now reject that recruit he's been pursuing. Gotta make sure that hillbilly knows his place. Yes, your asshole tastes good, Mr. Carr."

I mean... he was getting back stabbed any direction he turned. No one would have had success in the environment the U-M cultivated. NO ONE.

[Hannibal]

Bill Martin fucked up by not getting Casteel. No doubt about that. It's still RichRod's fault that literally the only DC he can possibly work with is Jeff Casteel. And he should have had enough self knowledge at the time to know his own weaknesses. We know that Martin didn't pony up the money for Casteel but there is no outward sign that RichRod actually went to bat for Casteel. RichRod had some shitty defenses, even with Casteel, so he was an unknown commodity. RichRod clearly was a much worse defensive coach than he gave himself credit for. He thought that he could just waltz into Ann Arbor and install the 3-3-5 with a DC who had never run it.

Everyone forgets -- RichRod had a second chance at Casteel -- in 2009. He chose Gerg. He could have also kept a good defensive coordinator in Scott Shafer, but he kept Tony Gibson instead. He actually promoted Gibson to be special teams coordinator as well. Anyone who watched our special teams in 2010 knows how that worked out. None of that is Carr's fault. Even after his pathetic failure at Michigan, RichRod still didn't learn. His defense had to give up 487 yards a game in 2012 before he finally jettisoned Gibson.

[chemiclord]

Bill Martin fucked up by not getting Casteel. It's still RichRod's fault that literally the only DC he can possibly work with is Jeff Casteel. And he should have had enough self knowledge at the time to know his own weaknesses. We know that Martin didn't pony up the money for Casteel but there is no outward sign that RichRod actually went to bat for Casteel. RichRod had some shitty defenses, even with Casteel, so he was an unknown commodity. RichRod clearly was a much worse defensive coach than he gave himself credit for. He thought that he could just waltz into Ann Arbor and install the 3-3-5 with a DC who had never run it.

The problem here is that the criticism against Rodriguez becomes a "what if." Casteel was an unproven commodity, so there's no guarantee that it would make a difference.

Sure. But we're seeing the results of that union elsewhere. When you have a certain set of results in two places and a entirely different set of results in another, now the question becomes "What was different in that outlier that skewed the results?"

And RichRod tried SEVERAL times to court Casteel. The problem was that the U-M repeatedly denied giving him the budget necessary to do it. I mean, that was a red flag AT THE TIME, not even in retrospect. I don't know how anyone can claim RichRod didn't go to bat for his DC of choice.

I know you want to defend your school of choice... but something is rotten in Denmark man, and it's not the deposed king.

[Hannibal]

The failures of Tony Gibson, Greg Robinson, and Jay Hopson are not outliers. They were bad coaches and RichRod fucked up by hiring/retaining them. Casteel being the difference maker is a more plausible explanation to me than the explanation that Carr loyalists were somehow responsible for 45 lost fumbles, a dozen muffed punts, the worst defense in program history, RichRod's fetish for shitty 3* slot recievers when he desperately needed defense, and -32 turnover margin.

I know you want to defend your school of choice... but something is rotten in Denmark man, and it's not the deposed king.

I won't dispute that. It makes me sick that there are so many people who put nepotism and their own petty affairs ahead of the well being of the golden goose. I'm ready to break out the Guillotine for just about everyone and if Lloyd Carr gets banned from Schembecler Hall for his role in the affair it wouldn't bother me one bit. Thus, my opinion that there's enough blame to go around. And I mean that sincerely. Lots of people made awful decisions as if they didn't take their jobs seriously. RichRod was one of them.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I'm not sure what Rich Rod did so differently in Ann Arbor as to be a total failure there. He clearly is competent enough to have been able to put together successful programs both before and after his stint. Not jaw-droppingly impressive programs, but capable and above-average. Maybe the pressure of the place got to him in a way it never would in Morgantown or Tucson.

His suckage was definitely not just his fault alone.

[chemiclord]

The failures of Tony Gibson, Greg Robinson, and Jay Hopson are not outliers. They were bad coaches and RichRod fucked up by hiring/retaining them. Casteel being the difference maker is a more plausible explanation to me than the explanation that Carr loyalists were somehow responsible for 45 lost fumbles, a dozen muffed punts, the worst defense in program history, RichRod's fetish for shitty 3* slot recievers when he desperately needed defense, and -32 turnover margin.

I won't dispute that. It makes me sick that there are so many people who put nepotism and their own petty affairs ahead of the well being of the golden goose. I'm ready to break out the Guillotine for just about everyone and if Lloyd Carr gets banned from Schembecler Hall for his role in the affair it wouldn't bother me one bit. Thus, my opinion that there's enough blame to go around. And I mean that sincerely. Lots of people made awful decisions as if they didn't take their jobs seriously. RichRod was one of them.

And you're right. I'll accept that. But I honestly DO think RichRod knew that. He tried VERY hard to bring Casteel to U-M, and was stonewalled. I think he DID know that he was a terrible defensive coach. So, yeah, I responded to the claim that he didn't go to bat for Casteel... because he did, pretty much every offseason.

The problem wasn't that Rodriguez didn't have flaws. The problem was that the U-M did very little to help cover up those flaws, and in some ways, sought to MAGNIFY them. That's why I feel the problem lies almost entirely in Ann Arbor.

[The Oracle]

You guys sure love self mutilation, huh? Reliving the RR years now?

[hack]

What do you expect? In a week that's maybe even worse for the Michigan program than any during Rich Rod's tenure here, the guy's team beat #2 on the road. For Rich Rod you couldn't script poetic justice any better.

[Hannibal]

We don't want people learning the wrong lessons by misinterpreting history. IMHO there are strong lessons to be learned from the RichRod era by a future AD, but "we shouldn't have fired RichRod" is not one of them.

[The Oracle]

Not even close to one of them.

[hack]

We don't want people learning the wrong lessons by misinterpreting history. IMHO there are strong lessons to be learned from the RichRod era by a future AD, but "we shouldn't have fired RichRod" is not one of them.

Who said we shouldn't have fired Rich Rod?

[Hannibal]

Who said we shouldn't have fired Rich Rod?

About 75% of mgoblog, which is now openly gloating on his behalf.

[hack]

Not even close to one of them.

John Bacon was interviewed by friggin' Al Jazeera this week. Right or wrong or undeserved or not, it's not positive Michigan is currently the poster child for putting kids in harm's way.

[hack]

About 75% of mgoblog, which is now openly gloating on his behalf.

OK well go tell them, then. Nobody here is saying that.