The Rest of College Football

[Dr. Strangelove]

I would say that LLLLLLoyd Carr is very much partly responsible for the appalling lack of talent on Rich Rod's 2008 & 2009 teams. And Hoke's 2011 season is largely attributable to Rich Rod's guys.

Rich Rod shot himself in the foot in a lot of ways but it's undeniable that there was a faction from his very first day that felt he was a fucking hillbilly with no ties to Michigan and needed to be run out of town for daring to change the 'Michigan Man' culture that Saint Bo had created. That group magnified and screamed about everything Rich did.

He's not an elite coach but he's clearly a successful one who can take programs consistently to bowl games if given time. You might be able to say 'well it's easy to win in the Big East" but the Pac12 is tougher than the Big10 these days and he's doing just fine there.

[Hannibal]

I would say that LLLLLLoyd Carr is very much partly responsible for the appalling lack of talent on Rich Rod's 2008 & 2009 teams. And Hoke's 2011 season is largely attributable to Rich Rod's guys.

Everybody who has touched the program from about 2006 on deserves to eat a massive shit sandwich.

[hack]

You might be able to say 'well it's easy to win in the Big East" but the Pac12 is tougher than the Big10 these days and he's doing just fine there.

I think the days are long gone when it's fair to wonder if some prissy spread offense will work in the rough-and-tumble Big Ten. I don't mean to suggest that at all, but it does seem, in a vaguer sense I'd have trouble explaining clearly, that a coach built for winning shootouts is going to do better in the Pac or 12.

[froot loops]

Rich Rodriguez was just a bad fit. A lot of coaches do well in lower profile gigs and struggle when they get these prestigious jobs. One of the reasons is you have a lot more responsibility in these jobs and you have to navigate the special interests. If you are unprepared for that, you are in trouble. Rich Rodriguez was wholly unprepared for it, he had a hard time navigating West Virginia. They weren't sad to see him go and he was a West Virginia man.

I guarantee you Arizona's Rich Rodriguez is much better prepared for it than he was when he went to Michigan. I kind of equate it to Nick Saban. The Nick Saban of MSU would not have had the same success at Alabama that he is having now. He was a miserable cuss that worked wonders for State but alienated everyone behind the scenes. The fans loved him, he was the best coach we had had in 30 years. He didn't want to talk to old alumni greats, didn't want to kiss babies or eat rubber chicken at fundraisers. He ran through assistant coaches because of his demanding ways. But he got results and when the offer from LSU came he went and the majority of people behind the scenes were glad to see him go. LSU sent a private plane up there to so he could hire his assistants and the plane sat on the runway empty. We chased off the best coach for 7 years of Bobby Williams and John L Smith. At LSU Saban changed a little bit, the edges softened, he became more of politician with the movers and shakers. That's part of the job responsibilities like it or not.

A lot is made of the Michigan Man thing Bo championed. But I think they are missing out on a big part of it. Yeah Bo was an OSU guy, but if you read that Bacon book his first task in getting to Michigan was to ingratiate himself to the culture already established. I wasn't around then so I'm not sure how much of it as revisionism on his part but in Bo's mind it was an important thing to keep Bump Elliot close to the program, to win over his players. There is a passage in the book where he said the Miami facilities were better than the facilities he was taking over at Michigan. His assistants were carping about it and he set them straight that Michigan's facilities were better because they were Michigan. Take it with a grain of salt, but remember the mindset. No matter what you think might need to be changed, you can't go about it with a bull in a china shop attitude.

[hack]

RR's definitely not gonna say ``I've learned to be more of a politician in the job'' now, and you wouldn't expect it. I don't know what he's learned. He's always said ``we were about to turn it around'', when, still, there was no signs of becoming a complete, three-legs-of-the-stool team. But, overall, those are good points.

Hoke probably looked great in the sense that as a coach, he's got the cultural stuff down pat. Very rehearsed.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I think you NEED a bull in a china shop. Or at least someone who shakes things up significantly while publicly smiling and saying what an honor and pleasure it is to be doing it the "Michigan Way"

[froot loops]

Well you better win big early then.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The program needs new ideas and competence a lot more than it needs another former player/coach that will primarily gush over how great Bo was and how good practices and execution need to be the focus.

[Rocky Bleier]

I would say that LLLLLLoyd Carr is very much partly responsible for the appalling lack of talent on Rich Rod's 2008 & 2009 teams. And Hoke's 2011 season is largely attributable to Rich Rod's guys.

Hoke won his first year mostly because of Carr's 5th year seniors.

[hack]

[chemiclord]

A lot is made of the Michigan Man thing Bo championed. But I think they are missing out on a big part of it. Yeah Bo was an OSU guy, but if you read that Bacon book his first task in getting to Michigan was to ingratiate himself to the culture already established. I wasn't around then so I'm not sure how much of it as revisionism on his part but in Bo's mind it was an important thing to keep Bump Elliot close to the program, to win over his players. There is a passage in the book where he said the Miami facilities were better than the facilities he was taking over at Michigan. His assistants were carping about it and he set them straight that Michigan's facilities were better because they were Michigan. Take it with a grain of salt, but remember the mindset. No matter what you think might need to be changed, you can't go about it with a bull in a china shop attitude.

The problem with that scenario is that LLloyd Carr bent over RichRod from Day 0. Carr was actively sabotaging the program before Rodriguez even touched down in Ann Arbor. There was no chance to win Carr over because Carr was Defcon 5 butthurt before the first snap of the first practice.

I mean, Carr was signing transfers for players before RichRod even had the CHANCE to talk to them (a little ironic considering how Carr would bluster nearly every year about the taboos his fellow Big Ten coaches would break on the recruiting trail).

There was no winning Carr over or trying to make nice with him. His petty, selfish arrogance would never allow it. RichRod wasn't Ron English, therefore Carr would destroy the program out of spite and bitterness.

He succeeded.

[Hannibal]

There's enough blame to go around. Lloyd, Bill Martin, Brandon, RichRod, Hoke, everyone.

There needs to be a Stalin style blood purge of the whole show.

[froot loops]

The problem with that scenario is that LLloyd Carr bent over RichRod from Day 0. Carr was actively sabotaging the program before Rodriguez even touched down in Ann Arbor. There was no chance to win Carr over because Carr was Defcon 5 butthurt before the first snap of the first practice.

I mean, Carr was signing transfers for players before RichRod even had the CHANCE to talk to them (a little ironic considering how Carr would bluster nearly every year about the taboos his fellow Big Ten coaches would break on the recruiting trail).

There was no winning Carr over or trying to make nice with him. His petty, selfish arrogance would never allow it. RichRod wasn't Ron English, therefore Carr would destroy the program out of spite and bitterness.

He succeeded.

That is what you've said.

[chemiclord]

There's enough blame to go around. Lloyd, Bill Martin, Brandon, RichRod, Hoke, everyone.

There needs to be a Stalin style blood purge of the whole show.

The ONLY thing I'd really pin on RichRod is that opening press conference where he declared OSU/U-M was just another game to him, and even that I don't terribly hold against him. It was certainly stupid to publicly say with the Cult of Bo listening, but the people who treat CFB like some sort of fucking sacred religion with a doctrine and a dogma that must be followed or risk holy smiting need to die in a collective fire... unfortunately a lot of them hold considerable power.

It's just impossible for me to say whether his tenure would have been a success or failure because of how many sights were turned on his temple before he even said one word. However, considering that he has had success everywhere else he's been suggests to me that the REAL problem rests almost entirely within Ann Arbor.

[Rocky Bleier]

The ONLY thing I'd really pin on RichRod is that opening press conference where he declared OSU/U-M was just another game to him, and even that I don't terribly hold against him.

Um... his defense gave up 45 points a game. You can't just say that's because he couldn't have Casteel. Schafer was screwed by Rich Rod's buddies who were the assistant defensive coaches. That's Rich Rod's fault.