The Rest of College Football

[JRB]

I can't say I understand this decision, either. If the NCAA believes there isn't proof of the allegation, and that there isn't likely to be any(which I suspect is the case, since the autograph dealers in question have apparently solved Manziel's problem by refusing to cooperate with the NCAA), then the enforcement folks have no grounds to punish Manziel. There should be no suspension here whatsoever.

If, on the other hand, the NCAA believes it could potentially find proof in the next couple of months, it shouldn't be making any sort of deal with Texas A&M now. Rather, it should leave A&M and Manziel twisting in the wind, and let A&M's powers-that-be decide how much they want to risk on Johnny Manziel's credibility. This is just an exercise in NCAA judicial face-saving, and a pointless one, at that.

The other thing I don't understand about this whole ridiculous mess-- Johnny Manziel couldn't possibly have needed the money. His family is already rich(and has been for a good long while), and he's likely to be rich himself after this season. Whatever he made from those signings he could have gotten by asking his father for a check. Why risk your season to sign autographs for money you don't even need?

[WM Wolverine]

Why do wealthy people steal?

[SeattleLionsFan]

I can't say I understand this decision, either. If the NCAA believes there isn't proof of the allegation, and that there isn't likely to be any(which I suspect is the case, since the autograph dealers in question have apparently solved Manziel's problem by refusing to cooperate with the NCAA), then the enforcement folks have no grounds to punish Manziel. There should be no suspension here whatsoever.

If, on the other hand, the NCAA believes it could potentially find proof in the next couple of months, it shouldn't be making any sort of deal with Texas A&M now. Rather, it should leave A&M and Manziel twisting in the wind, and let A&M's powers-that-be decide how much they want to risk on Johnny Manziel's credibility. This is just an exercise in NCAA judicial face-saving, and a pointless one, at that.

The other thing I don't understand about this whole ridiculous mess-- Johnny Manziel couldn't possibly have needed the money. His family is already rich(and has been for a good long while), and he's likely to be rich himself after this season. Whatever he made from those signings he could have gotten by asking his father for a check. Why risk your season to sign autographs for money you don't even need?

"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." -Ayn Rand

I think your premise that he did not need money is correct. Therefore, your premise that he believed it to risk his season must be incorrect. (and it didn't threaten his season, obvi)

[JRB]

Why do wealthy people steal?

I don't understand that, either. I don't understand a great many things, in point of fact, so I shouldn't be surprised.

"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." -Ayn Rand

See, this is part of my problem. I failed to consider the immutable wisdom of Ayn Rand before asking a question. I'll know better next time. Unless, of course, I don't.

[Rob F]

Makes sense. I think. Then again...

[JRB]

Don't think. You'll only hurt the ballclub.

[Hannibal]

I know what you are saying Hanni, but I like COLLEGE football and the NFL serves most of my pro needs.

I do see what you're saying. I think that college football would still remain college football though. Competitive parity would return on a national level, and a nice side effect might be that more kids would stick around for four years to finish their degree. I, for one, am rapidly losing interest in the sport outside of the Big Ten. After watching the biggest bowl games for 20 years straight, I haven't watched the NC game for two straight years. I'm sick of the game beings stratified into semi-pros and amateurs.

[iam416]

The lesson is never admit anything. Always deny. It's admitted that Manziel stood in a room with memorabilia dealers signing hundreds of items. But that's not enough. He denied he was paid.

I think if OSU had been more aggressive on that front they might have prevailed. Sure, a guy has a bunch of OSU stuff and OSU kids have tattoos, but they paid for the tattoos and gave him the stuff out of the goodness of their heart. Deny.

I still can't believe Penn State acquiesced to this bullshit institution.

[Hannibal]

Whatever he made from those signings he could have gotten by asking his father for a check

Could he? I knew a lot of rich kids that lived on the cheap in college. There's also a stigma associated with asking your parents for money instead of earning it yourself. Based on what we know about the size of the dollar figures flowing through the sport, it wouldn't surprise me if Manziel has made six figures over the past year. There's asking your dad to pay your tuition, and then there's asking your dad to fork over $100,000 in cash because you simply want it.

[Hannibal]

Why do wealthy people steal?

The overwhelming majority of them probably don't, and the ones that do probably steal an amount large enough to move the needle. It has also been my observation that a lot of wealthy thieves are actually not that wealthy, and they steal to maintain a phony image (e.g. the Miami whistleblowing jock sniffer who spent all of his embezzled money on Miami athletes.) One of the consistent factors that I have noticed with white collar criminals is that you always hear about how much they like to throw parties and entertain people.

[iam416]

$10K is a lot of walking around money. That moves the needle. Just becaue you're rich doesn't make you stupid or oblivious to market forces. It may make your price higher, but you'd have to shitting gold to turn down $10K (or more) for an hour of signing your name.

[Jeff Buchanan]

The lesson is never admit anything. Always deny. It's admitted that Manziel stood in a room with memorabilia dealers signing hundreds of items. But that's not enough. He denied he was paid.

I think if OSU had been more aggressive on that front they might have prevailed. Sure, a guy has a bunch of OSU stuff and OSU kids have tattoos, but they paid for the tattoos and gave him the stuff out of the goodness of their heart. Deny.

I still can't believe Penn State acquiesced to this bullshit institution.

Agreed ...... as to your last sentence. I can.

Michigan has demonstrated that sort of stupid behavior, osu, as you describe has.

I suspect if we took a close look we would find find other institutions that either confessed all the way or part of the way to the NCAA. Any admission of rule breaking leads to some level of punishment, usually greater than that levied by the NCAA to institutions that just deny.

It's easy to deny under the current NCAA rules regarding rule breaking and subsequent NCAA investigations. It is obvious to the most casual observer that the NCAA lacks the resources and hammers to conduct a thorough investigation.

Unless there are Federal Crimes involved and the NCAA can piggy back on a Federal Investigation, you are safe and can break all the NCAA rules you like. Which begs the question why do programs/conferences sign on to this shit sandwich?

Ding, ding .... by the end of this decade, the NCAA, as it currently exists, will probably be gone. This will be good for CFB.

Only fly in the ointment is that the SEC will probably be happy to keep the NCAA as it's rules governing body.

[iam416]

I think every program that has been been sanctioned with real penalties cooperated with the NCAA beyond merely acknowledging that which couldn't be denied.

According to OSU insiders, one of the reasons Gene Smith is really disliked internally (and by insiders) is that when the DiGeronimo stuff came up he threw the kids under the bus and was willing to acquiesce to everything (this really screwed Posey over, who got another 5 games). Unfortunately, as I understand it, he has a powerful patron on the BoT, so he's still around.

Anyway, my bigger picture take of the whole thing is that I don't care that Manziel signed autographs and was paid. It's not something I find immoral. Nor do I care if there is inconsistent enforcement. Life isn't fair. All in all, I don't much care that it turned out the way it did. I'd much rather focus on Ohio State and the upcoming season.

[Wild Hoss]

The lesson is never admit anything. Always deny. It's admitted that Manziel stood in a room with memorabilia dealers signing hundreds of items. But that's not enough. He denied he was paid.

I think if OSU had been more aggressive on that front they might have prevailed. Sure, a guy has a bunch of OSU stuff and OSU kids have tattoos, but they paid for the tattoos and gave him the stuff out of the goodness of their heart. Deny.

I still can't believe Penn State acquiesced to this bullshit institution.

:::drops the mic:::

[Wild Hoss]

It's easy to deny under the current NCAA rules regarding rule breaking and subsequent NCAA investigations. It is obvious to the most casual observer that the NCAA lacks the resources and hammers to conduct a thorough investigation.

I agree, but the fact that they won't act on circumstantial evidence- even if its nearly overwhelming- is the bigger problem. f

They behave as if they need to prove violations to the standard of a criminal proceeding, for which they do not have the authority or ability to meet, and they don't have to. So its open season.