The Rest of College Football

[Dr. Strangelove]

And yet, despite how much EVERY sport has done to turn people off and anger the tradition-lovers with the dreaded word "change", people are spending more money on organized sports than ever before.

For every Jeff that shrugs and walks away, sulking that Michigan no longer caters to the bluehairs, there's two young kids that will happily buy his season tickets.

[WM Wolverine]

Someone brought up MLB, I wouldn't say its declined as much as its growth has stopped, likely due to the rise of other sports like football receiving the interest of the youth. Financially, Selig has done a good job in getting more revenue (via TV, etc.) and distributing that wealth more equally.

[Dr. Strangelove]

In 1953, in the middle of their 5th World Series championship season in a row, the New York Yankees averaged less than 20,000 fans a game.

That same year the Tigers averaged only 11,000 fans a game. And that was 5th best out of 8 teams!

The "massive" decline in baseball popularity is being overblown. I'm not sure where Hanni lives that youth baseball is non-existent, but it's all over the place in Ohio.

[drok]

If I wanted to watch overtly marketed tradition-free sport, I'd watch the NFL. Tradition is what makes college football worth watching. The NFL has a much better skill level and (arguably) is coached at a higher level. But I couldn't care less because it's bland, boring, soulless bullshit.

[Dr. Strangelove]

A lot of "sacred traditions" start off as little more than gimmicks or attempts to drum up publicity.

[hack]

Doesn't matter how they started. What matters is continuity if you want the alumni cash.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Such as parading a Confederate flag around the stadium, calling yourself the "Rebels", using a white plantation owner as your mascot, and singing Dixie after every touchdown?

If a tradition alienates or is irrelevant to a younger generation then it's not going to preserve this continuity you're talking about. I'm sure there are a lot of people who regard Minnesota as a top rival and bigger game for Michigan than Penn State. I'm just not sure how many of those people are under 40.

[WM Wolverine]

M has 3 pretty large rivalry games, and not one of them are the Gophers...

How do you guys (OSU) fill about your rivalry with Illinois?

[hack]

Such as parading a Confederate flag around the stadium, calling yourself the "Rebels", using a white plantation owner as your mascot, and singing Dixie after every touchdown?

If a tradition alienates or is irrelevant to a younger generation then it's not going to preserve this continuity you're talking about. I'm sure there are a lot of people who regard Minnesota as a top rival and bigger game for Michigan than Penn State. I'm just not sure how many of those people are under 40.

WTF does any of that have to do with anything? Are you employed, Mr. Lebowski? Do you speak English? Hello?

[Jeff Buchanan]

Strange is reaching .....

The Confederate flag thing is a perfect example of a straw man if I've ever seen one.

Anywho ..... I don't get the resistance from the minority opinion here that tradition (as a definition of it has emerged here) is not extremely important to the preservation of the game of CFB.

I'm in agreement with the position that time and change hasn't eliminated the popularity of MLB or the NFL but I do think the direction these once grand sports have taken has weakened their popularity, at least with me. Free agency in particular has made roster loyalty impossible. There are few ball players lasting 10 or more years with one club anymore. The astronomical salaries top players are commanding these days is another negative factor. I have a hard time cheering for shit heads like Ray Lewis, who is a thug guilty of, but not punished for, an Atlanta murder. He bought his way out of a conviction, OJ style.

What I'm looking for in all of the goings on with CFB of late is someone in a leadership position to step up and say, there are things more important than the billions of dollars CFB can generate for our schools. Guys in those positions like Dave Brandon worry me because he's a tinkerer and has played dangerously on the margins with one of the most tradition laden programs in CFB. Don and Bo are moaning loudly in their graves over some of the shit he has come up with. It's that nibbling away thing and, DSL, it has nothing whatsoever to do with keeping the blue hairs happy. It has more to do with preserving the game day experience that I had with my Dad, he had with his and Sean had with me. If you want to flip the bird at that kind of thing, be my guest and show your ass.

[hack]

The thing about the NFL and MLB is that they are sports leagues run like legitimate sports leagues -- with a central authority ensuring balance and fairness. CFB does not have that as a source of legitimacy, in part because it never had to create it to be popular. So, it's got alumni. Don't piss them off.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Strange is reaching .....

The Confederate flag thing is a perfect example of a straw man if I've ever seen one.

Anywho ..... I don't get the resistance from the minority opinion here that tradition (as a definition of it has emerged here) is not extremely important to the preservation of the game of CFB.

I'm in agreement with the position that time and change hasn't eliminated the popularity of MLB or the NFL but I do think the direction these once grand sports have taken has weakened their popularity, at least with me. Free agency in particular has made roster loyalty impossible. There are few ball players lasting 10 or more years with one club anymore. The astronomical salaries top players are commanding these days is another negative factor. I have a hard time cheering for shit heads like Ray Lewis, who is a thug guilty of, but not punished for, an Atlanta murder. He bought his way out of a conviction, OJ style.

What I'm looking for in all of the goings on with CFB of late is someone in a leadership position to step up and say, there are things more important than the billions of dollars CFB can generate for our schools. Guys in those positions like Dave Brandon worry me because he's a tinkerer and has played dangerously on the margins with one of the most tradition laden programs in CFB. Don and Bo are moaning loudly in their graves over some of the shit he has come up with. It's that nibbling away thing and, DSL, it has nothing whatsoever to do with keeping the blue hairs happy. It has more to do with preserving the game day experience that I had with my Dad, he had with his and Sean had with me. If you want to flip the bird at that kind of thing, be my guest and show your ass.

Let me ask you this, Jeff: what would it take for you to quit supporting Michigan football? What could Dave Brandon ruin for you that would make it impossible for you to continue following the team?

Too much piped in music? An additional stripe on the uniform? How do changes to a uniform or putting field turf down in Michigan stadium make it impossible for you to enjoy Michigan football with your son?

It's that sort of exaggeration and "sky-is-falling" doomtalk that Talent and I are objecting to.

What is a valid "tradition" and what is not depends entirely upon your age group and your perspective. Do future Wolverines not have a right to invent their own traditions and bond around those? Or are they condemned to simply go with whatever was done in the past because your generation was the only group that knew what Michigan football was all about?

[hack]

Well I don't think there's exaggeration and doomsday talk apart from Hannibal, but that's his style. You are blowing it up into that because its easier than engaging with a balanced point of view.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Well I don't think there's exaggeration and doomsday talk apart from Hannibal, but that's his style. You are blowing it up into that because its easier than engaging with a balanced point of view.

The sense I get from multiple people is that if anyone ever tried to change the helmets or the fight song, they'd quit being a fan on the spot.

Is that an exaggeration?

And I'd like to hear your opinion if you believe it's possible to "create" a tradition and if new future traditions will ever develop at Michigan.

[hack]

Well you could actually read the thread if you want to know my opinion, but basically what I'm saying -- again -- is that what makes for continuity and consistent alumni support is what's indoctrinated pretty much starting at freshman orientation. And, that it's important to strike a balance.