The Rest of College Football

[lineygoblue]

The only way that changes will come is if two parties step up. One, the NCAA, and two, the networks.

The NCAA is too jelly-spined to go after the SEC. They are the darling of college football right now, even though they are they classic example of the fable "The Emperor's New Clothes". Everyone can see what is going on, but nobody wants to do anything.

The networks will keep throwing money at the SEC as long as the NCAA does nothing.

So, nothing is going to change.

[Hannibal]

In the past year or so, I have adopted an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality when it comes to SEC cheating. There's no point in following the rules pertaining to amateurisim anymore, and there's nothing morally wrong with breaking them, since they don't benefit the student-athletes. I too am losing my interest in the national picture. I didn't even watch the Cotton Bowl or the game last night. Kinda don't care.

[Jamie H]

The networks will keep throwing money at the SEC as long as the NCAA does nothing.

Kinda like Auburn threw money at Cam Newton? 200k is a cheap price to pay for all the money a title brings in.

[Hannibal]

It sure is. The stark reality is that the top 1-2% of football stars are probably worth close to as much as a typical pro athlete when you factor in all of the impacts that player has on the program. I say fuckit. Let boosters and agents pay players and get rid of oversigning.

[iam416]

I've heard it described by people I tend to believe that there's "regular" cheating and then there's "SEC" cheating. But, meh -- it just sounds like sour grapes.

[Wild Hoss]

Kinda like Auburn threw money at Cam Newton? 200k is a cheap price to pay for all the money a title brings in.

Yep. And if they'd actually gotten burned for it they wouldn't care either...three years later when the minor sanctions they got wore off, they'd be right back at it. As they and their SEC ilk always have been.

So, whatever. They can go crow about their tainted titles all they want. I won't be party to it. That's all the control I possess....until they start buying viewers I suppose.

[lineygoblue]

I'm with you, Jamie. There was a blatant rules violation in the Newton affair, which has been casually dusted aside by the NCAA, thus sending the message that the risk is worth the reward. And every team in the SEC was watching carefully. Seeing that Auburn got away with it, the floodgates are now open. I don't expect to see another NCAA football champion outside of the SEC for years to come. They have too much of an advantage.

Hanni - I only watched a few minutes of the game also. It was a rematch game, and didn't really settle anything in my mind. What we have now, is three one-loss teams that probably have a legit claim to the title. And no way to settle it.

If I had a vote today, I'd still vote for LSU, because to me, yesterday's game shouldn't have even been played. If Alabama and LSU were TRULY #1 and #2 going into the game, then it had already been settled in Tuscaloosa in October.

[Hannibal]

I've heard it described by people I tend to believe that there's "regular" cheating and then there's "SEC" cheating. But, meh -- it just sounds like sour grapes.

I felt the same way as you do until somewhat recently. I used to think of cheating as a rogue booster or two giving a player a gold chain or a pair of shoes. Relatively insignificant when it comes to competitive advantage, and difficult to enforce. Then I started to hear about the dollar figures involved. In the Cam Newton case, it's all but confirmed. It takes more than one or two rogue boosters to pull that off. It takes an organization. Then there's Oregon paying off Willie Lyles, and Reggie Bush getting crazy amounts of money from an agent. And then there's the "rogue" Miami booster whose payouts numbered in the millions. It's no longer sour grapes to point out that it's unreasonable to expect to compete with that. That's reality. If you go to school at Michigan, you will live a tougher lifestyle than you will at an SEC West school, and that means that a high school kid is more likely to go to an SEC West school.

[Wild Hoss]

I felt the same way as you do until somewhat recently. I used to think of cheating as a rogue booster or two giving a player a gold chain or a pair of shoes. Relatively insignificant when it comes to competitive advantage, and difficult to enforce. Then I started to hear about the dollar figures involved. In the Cam Newton case, it's all but confirmed. It takes more than one or two rogue boosters to pull that off. It takes an organization. Then there's Oregon paying off Willie Lyles, and Reggie Bush getting crazy amounts of money from an agent. And then there's the "rogue" Miami booster whose payouts numbered in the millions. It's no longer sour grapes to point out that it's unreasonable to expect to compete with that. That's reality. If you go to school at Michigan, you will live a tougher lifestyle than you will at an SEC West school. Even Chris Webber didn't live lavishly while he was on campus.

When its gotten to a point where even Oklahoma and Texas apparently can't bend the rules enough to compete, we've reached a point of absurdity.

[SeanB]

but the SEC is going to cheat its way into lower ratings

This is the only part I disagree with. Not because I like the SEC, but because people are insane down there when it comes to their teams. Ratings won't be affected by "cheating" because very few folks down there actually think their teams cheat.

I have a friend who is a Clemson fan, and he still goes on and on about their dominant NC team in 1981. It's like the scandal that followed never happened to him. They won, and that's all there is to it!

I stole this from wiki:

On November 21, 1982, the football program was placed on probation for a 2-year period to include the 1983 and 1984 seasons. This sanction was enforced on the program by the NCAA Committee on Infractions due to a lengthy history of recruiting violations meant to gain an athletic advantage. These recruiting violations took place from 1977 through the Tigers' [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Clemson_Tigers_football_team"]1981 Clemson Tigers football team - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] and into 1982, under the administration of two head coaches, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Pell"]Charley Pell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] and Danny Ford. The [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Coast_Conference"]Atlantic Coast Conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] imposed a third year of conference penalty.
Over 150 documented violations were found to have been committed under NCAA bylaws in the categories of improper recruiting inducements, extra benefits to student-athletes, unethical conduct, improper financial aid, improper campus visits, improper transportation and entertainment, improper use of funds, improper employment, improper recruiting contact, and distribution of cash to players by members of the coaching staff.[9]

As a result of these violations, Clemson was barred from participating in bowl games following the 1982 and 1983 seasons, and barred from appearing on live television in the 1983 and 1984 seasons. Also, the number of scholarships that the university could allocate to football players was restricted to 20 (from the normal limit of 30) for the 1983-84 and 1984-85 academic years. The Tigers, however, were allowed to keep their 1978 and 1981 ACC titles as well as the 1981 national title.

The last sentence is the best part. Despite knowing all of that, they still got to "keep" the title. Whatever.

[iam416]

I felt the same way as you do until somewhat recently. I used to think of cheating as a rogue booster or two giving a player a gold chain or a pair of shoes. Relatively insignificant when it comes to competitive advantage

I think "regular" cheating is in the lines of this, regular extra benefits while you're at school which may include fixing up family members with jobs or some such nonsense.

"SEC" cheating is, as I've heard it, literally briefcases of money. Lots of it. I'd also say that I wouldn't indict the entire league. I think it's possible Richt and UGa are operating on a mere "standard" cheating line. They certainly don't oversign. Florida, I think, too, at least doesn't really oversign. Then again, aside from Vandy, those are, by far, the two best schools in the SEC.

The SEC West, however, puts the SWC to shame, IMO.

[lineygoblue]

The last sentence is the best part. Despite knowing all of that, they still got to "keep" the title. Whatever.

The risk is worth the reward. They can show recruits the hardware, and the banners hanging on the wall, and talk about their "winning tradition", while the NCAA pats itself on the back for "policing" college football.

Its a complete joke.

But, as I said above. We're not going to see a football champion outside of the SEC for years to come because of the double standard. As long as the NCAA looks the other way on the overt and covert cheating, nothing is going to change. I believe that the NCAA is actually taking the stance that they don't WANT to know what's going on in the SEC. They are content to just shut their eyes and let things go the way they are now.

[iam416]

Also, to the point raised earlier (and fairly often) -- oversigning. Alabama signed 30 more players than Ohio State over the past 5 years. 30. With that sort of "leeway", Ohio State could have pushed for (and gotten) the likes of Jerel Worthy, Johnny Adams, Whitney Mercilius and more. And if they didn't work out, eh, see you later.

It's such a massive advantage to have that many additional cracks at finding kids who can play. And it's the one advantage the NCAA can actually do something about. The NCAA isn't going to stop huge cash transactions, but they can actually enforce the 85 on signing day. If players leave the program afterward, so be it -- it helps you for next year's class.

[Wild Hoss]

That 1981 Clemson team beat NU in the Orange Bowl, costing us a potential national championship.

[iam416]

As a follow-up, over the past two seasons, Alabama has had 21 players leave the program after NSD and before the magical 85 date. 21! It's part of their annual "March to 85!" Over the last 2 years, Penn State had 2 players leave after NSD.