The Rest of College Football

[THE_WIZARD_]

What is subjective about it? Either the play is over or it isn't.

stfu

[crashcourse]

I'm sure i've seen a play 4th down they didn't get it--guy gets hit with foot out and they give him 15 and a first down. so your saying if hes out plays over and 15 yards but other team gets the ball

no

[CGVT]

Are you really arguing rules with a guy who was an NCAA Ref?

Jesus. Next thing you'll be trying to tell us that the fucking election was stolen.

[THE_WIZARD_]

In college football, there are generally two types of fouls. There are live ball fouls and dead ball fouls. A live ball foul is any foul that occurs while the ball is, well, live. Any foul that occurs during a down is a live ball foul. Things like holding, pass interference, or illegal formation are always live ball fouls. The other group is made up of fouls that occur when the ball is NOT live. False starts are always dead ball fouls because by definition they happen prior to the ball being live. There are some fouls that can be either live or dead ball fouls depending on when they occur. Things like unsportsmanlike conduct, personal fouls, and even offside.

The difference between the two types of fouls is best shown in how they are enforced. Only one live ball foul can ever be enforced per down. That means that if a team commits more than one foul in a down, the opponent has to choose which one to accept. Dead ball fouls, however, do not follow the same rules. Any number of dead ball fouls could be enforced in the same interval between downs. Another difference is that the acceptance or declination of the penalty for a live ball foul factors into what the next down and distance will be. If a holding foul is called on 2nd down and the runner was tackled short of the line to gain, the next down will be 2nd if the penalty is accepted or 3rd if the penalty is declined. For dead ball fouls, the number of down is not affected unless a first down is awarded either automatically or by yardage. If the offense commits a false start on 1st down, it will still be 1st down whether the defense accepts the penalty or not. This will be a key factor in this play. Also, because of these enforcement differences, live ball fouls can only offset live ball fouls and dead ball fouls can only offset dead ball fouls. The two never interact in college football. In the NFL, there are certain times they can offset each other, but not in the college game. Soooo....why didn't Clemson get the ball back?


There is an order of operations when it comes to penalty enforcement, similar to your elementary math class, and you can't go backward. Once you've completed a step, it's done.

1. Evaluate all live ball action. This includes the result of the down as well as any live ball fouls.
2. Evaluate the line to gain. Is the ball behind or beyond the line? Award a first down if needed. This could be to either team.
3. Enforce any dead ball fouls. Award a first down if needed.
4. If a first down was awarded, establish a new line to gain when the ball is made ready for play.

So let's look at the Duke-Clemson play....

1. Evaluate live ball action: The result of the down is a ball carrier short of the line to gain. There are no live ball fouls.
2. Evaluate the line to gain: The ball is behind the line to gain and 4th down is over. Award Team B a first down. Duke will get the ball.
3. Enforce dead ball fouls: Enforce the late hit with targeting. 15 yard penalty from the succeeding spot (DQ offending player). The succeeding spot is just wherever the ball would have been put in play without a penalty. Remember what we said about dead ball fouls in section 2 up there. The down is going to be the same no matter what happens with this penalty because it is a dead ball foul. So even when Clemson accepts the penalty, it will still be Duke's ball, first down.
4. Establish a new line to gain: Because the foul occurred between series, it will still be 1st and 10. A team can never start a series with anything other than 1st and 10 (or 1st and goal) due to fouls before the ball is ready for play.

your welcome

now stfu

[THE_WIZARD_]

I don't expect crash to understand this. Let's start with velcro. Once he gets that we will move on.

[crashcourse]

refs are always right

elections are never stolen

got it

[THE_WIZARD_]

#1 is true.

#2 is not true because Algore, Hillary and Stacy Abrams all had elections stolen.

stfu

[lineygoblue]

I admit at first when I saw the play, I thought Clemson would get the first down via penalty. But as it was explained, the QB gave himself up, short of the line to gain, so in giving himself up, he gave up gaining further yardage. He was short of the line to gain. Duke committed a dead ball foul after the slide.

Its not that hard to understand. It would have been the same call had the QB stood up, and the Duke player smacked him upside the head. Dead ball foul. Penalize Duke 15 yards, and play the game. Dead ball action is not a continuation of the previous play.

[crashcourse]

but I get it tks

now whats this velcro thing?

[THE_WIZARD_]

Don't confuse crash.

[THE_WIZARD_]

but I get it tks

now whats this velcro thing?

Go listen to ZZTop's "Velcro Fly"...

[crashcourse]

LMAO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F89McWFENTs

[WingsFan]

I thought there was an automatic first down on PF's /Targeting even after the play? Thought the call jobbed Clemson (not that I mind).

[THE_WIZARD_]

Nope. Dead ball enforcement.

[WingsFan]

I get it, was Duke's ball at that point.