Brady Unlimited III: Wolverines in the NFL & NFL News

[iam416]

I know we measure shit by SBs (all hail Montana!), but here's an interesting little tidbit. I think you could argue the 4 greatest seasons ever by a QB ended with a loss. Marino '84; Manning '04; Brady '07; Rodgers '11. And I certainly don't consider Rodgers '10 or Roethlisberger '09 or Eli '07 to be anywhere in the same statosphere as those seasons.

I mean, do people realize how un-f'n-believable Rodgers was this season?

[Jamie H]

Peyton might be in the top 10. There is no way he is #1. Not even close.

[iam416]

That's insane. INSANE. He's arguably #1. There's zero doubt he's top 10. Good god, name 10 better QBs.

[WM Wolverine]

Marino was amazing, so was Manning and Montana. Tom Brady could get there after a few more seasons. I saw Favre as a step below these guys as when the talent wasn't around him, he was trying to do too much and making too many mistakes. Steve Young has to be right there near the top 5 or so.

[Jamie H]

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Steve Young
Roger Staubach
Johnny Unitas
John Elway
Tom Brady
Bart Starr

That's only 8, but I said he might be top 10, so that works.

There is no way in hell Manning is even in the discussion for #1. He's not even the best QB during the time he played, let alone #1 in history.

[WM Wolverine]

Look at the numbers over what Manning had control over; he's top 10 in everyones book but yours, Jamie. Unless your main criteria is SB wins, Manning is one of the very best ever.

[Jamie H]

I said he might be top 10. I only listed 8 other guys up there. There is no way in hell he is #1 overall though.

You also have to account for the fact that rule changes have made passing yardage totals skyrocket like pinball machines over the past decade.

[iam416]

Marino was amazing, so was Manning and Montana. Tom Brady could get there after a few more seasons. I saw Favre as a step below these guys as when the talent wasn't around him, he was trying to do too much and making too many mistakes. Steve Young has to be right there in or near the top 5 or so...

My #1 pure passing QB is Marino. I could watch Montana run an offense all day, but he played on such ridiculously good teams -- I wonder how we would have done otherwise.

Manning -- he is the offense. I don't even know why they have an OC. He runs everything. That's amazing in this day and age. And he does it as well as anyone. He could make all the throws. Just a splendid QB.

Young -- ehh -- hard to say b/c his career was unduly shortened. I'd have him outside the top 5.

I do agree that Brady is in the conversation. My top 4 would be Marino, Montana, Manning and, I think, Brady will be there. Unitas -- he's so hard to assess b/c the eras are so different. But even relative to the league, Manning has been MVP 4 times and Unitas was MVP 3 times. Eh, tough call.

[Jamie H]

If you want to see how skewed the numbers have become in recent years, look at this list:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

7 of the top 10 all-time QB's in Passer Rating as CURRENTLY ACTIVE. That's nuts.
The NFL game has evolved into a pinball-machine for QBs, and I think you have to adjust every current player down a bit when comparing them to players from past decades.

[iam416]

But getting back to something I said earlier: the 4 best QB seasons ever all ended in a loss. I'm probably the only one who finds that interesting. Heh.

[iam416]

The NFL game has evolved into a pinball-machine for QBs, and I think you have to adjust every current player down a bit when comparing them to players from past decades.

That's true. You measure the player, first, against his peers. Then look cross-era.

For my money, Manning is best QB of the 21st century. That gets him into the conversation with Marino/Montana and Unitas. And that conversation is difficult b/c the stats don't translate.

[Jamie H]

Not surprising if you think about it. Most likely if you have a good running game, your QB doesn't have an all-time season, and in the playoffs, one-dimentional teams tend to lose.

[Hannibal]

IMHO Manning laid an egg in too many playoff games to be close to #1. I normally don't put a lot importance on winning championships for one player, but with Manning, he was critical in Indy's numerous one-and-dones and years where they were expected to win the Super Bowl, but didn't.

[Jamie H]

I guess I have to think that if Manning was the best ever, he would have won more. It's not like he didn't play on talented teams. I don't think Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James were chopped liver.

I'm not saying he isn't a great QB. I just don't think he factors into the "best ever" discussion.

[iam416]

he was critical in Indy's numerous one-and-dones and years where they were expected to win the Super Bowl, but didn't.

Lemme ask you this, Hanni -- how many home playoff games has Manning lost? That would be an indication of losing in the playoffs when they were "expected" to win the SB. I think twice. 2005 and last season. The Stillers whipped the Colts OL all f'n day in 2005. And the Jets beat them last year.

How many times has NE lost at home in the playoffs as the favorite? Well, the last two seasons, for sure. And, of course, they had the most epic choke in all playoff history. How many times have they won on the road? The first one -- in Pittsburgh...when f'n Troy Brown return a punt, then the fers blocked a FG for a TD and when Drew Bledsoe threw a TD pass.

I do think the Colts probably should have won 1 more SB. But it's a crapshoot. It's tough to get by. I'm not going to bag on Rodgers' season b/c everything went way wrong against the Jints.