M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Rocky Bleier]

How many years was Michigan banned from bowls for extra stretching? How many scholarships were lost for extra stretching? Zero...No comparison to what Mo C. described. And that was before Terrelle Pryor and tattoo-gate. Definitely a culture under Saint Jim the hypocrite.

[Dr. Strangelove]

What Clarett described wouldn't get a school banned from bowls either. It was Tressel's non-disclosure that caused that.

And an argument can certainly be made that insofar as unfair field advantage is concerned, exceeding practice limits is more serious than selling trinkets for tats.

[Dr. Strangelove]

But basically what Mr. Dooksucks is true: Michigan fans love, absolutely LOVE to sing the anthem of the self-righteous loser.

[lineygoblue]

No, all the self-righteousness in the B1G is totally soaked into the mindset of the fan base in Columbus.

After all, your team has done nothing wrong, .. correct?

That is the epitome of self righteousness.

Then to lay claim to some sort of leadership of the conference is just pitiful.

But you guys are used to being pitiful. So, it fits.

[iam416]

Breaking NCAA rules is breaking NCAA rules. Fortunately, neither OSU nor M gained a competitive advantage from their respective violations.

Anyway, the rationalization for M's total inferiority is sweet music to my ears. As is the almost total disregard for facts and brazen willingness to misrepresent anything an OSU poster says. Nothing could illustrate Ohio State ownership of M better (and, tbh, this particular forum's obsession with me). Total. Fucking. Domination.

It's good to be the FLAGSHIP.

[lineygoblue]

Ladies and gentlemen, .. please welcome OlieO State ... the "flagship" of the B1G ....

They'll accept donations at the door as you leave ....

[Pasadena Blue]

why do we even bother engaging in this? No reason to stoop to their level. It is why Oohi fans are so popular nationally.

[iam416]

I can tell you why -- it bothers the living shit out of M fans that Ohio State has so completely dominated the series this, well, century. Hence the need for hapless rationalization.

[lineygoblue]

The need for hapless rationalization flew out the window when Saint Jim covered up tattoo gate, and lied to the NCAA. Everything you need to know about his program came to light at that moment. It was a program built on lies and deceit. If the right people ever get the testicular fortitude to speak the truth about it, it will be even worse than anyone ever imagined.

[lineygoblue]

Oh .. and all hail the flagship!

[Pasadena Blue]

I can tell you why -- it bothers the living shit out of M fans that Ohio State has so completely dominated the series this, well, century. Hence the need for hapless rationalization.

uh hu .... I just called in the refill for your lithium.

[Dan V]

No, all the self-righteousness in the B1G is totally soaked into the mindset of the fan base in Columbus.

After all, your team has done nothing wrong, .. correct?

That is the epitome of self righteousness.

Then to lay claim to some sort of leadership of the conference is just pitiful.

But you guys are used to being pitiful. So, it fits.

12-0 means we did nothing wrong when it comes to losing

[lineygoblue]

12-0 should have rational ohio fans blowing smoke out their ears.

Without Saint Jim's coverup and subsequent lies, you guys would be playing Notre Dame for a MNC in January.

Instead, ohio fans are proud of the lies and deceit, and wear the NCAA sanctions as some sort of badge of honor. They see the 12-0 as a vindication of sorts, that justified the means. They have no problem with their undefeated team sitting at home this bowl season, instead of playing for a MNC as they probably should be. They'd rather honor the guy who cost them the appearance.

But, that's fine with me. I have no dog in the hunt. They can do whatever they please.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I know this a flame thread so, I'll assume talent's posts are just that. But the facts, as talent likes to articulate them, don't paint the same picture for me, and, frankly, most of the CFB world, as they do for osu fans, talent and strange included.

That's not unusual. As individuals and as members of groups, we have motivational biases and a wish to shape a history that suits us, the truth of the matter be damned. After all, there are people who continue to deny that the Holocaust ever happened. So, in that context, I can understand why osu fans, talent and strange among them, continue to support jim tressel and his soiled accomplishments as osu's HC. Hiel.

Here are the facts:

Jim tressel was aware that members of his football teams were receiving or had received benefits beyond that which an otherwise enrolled student would have received. That is a violation of NCAA rules no matter how insignificant osu fans want to make these violations. There is no debating this as it has been established as fact by the NCAA.

Beyond that, we are led to believe by osu fans who post here that tressel's failure to forward an email to his superiors or his compliance officer indirectly acknowledging he knew about these benefits, was nothing more than a minor lapse in judgement. At the Nuremberg trials most of the defendants continued to deny any wrong doing. This even when confronted with photographs of thousands of dead Jews stacked one upon the other at Auschwitz. Are their similarities here? I would say so. Again, Hiel.

The facts also support that on two separate occasions, when given the opportunity to tell the truth to the NCAA, tressel chose instead, in a premeditated way, to lie to NCAA investigators. These lies inappropriately and undeservedly protected his integrity and that of the osu football program for a period that preserved the eligibility of certain players for an entire season and post season bowl game. Given that one of the players who should have been suspended was tressel's star QB, arguing that there was no competitive advantage gained by his lying is not supportable.

Moreover, it can be argued that the long history of benefit giving to members of osu's football team by osu fans and boosters during tressel's tenure as HC attracted quality football recruits. These disadvantaged yet skilled 17 and 18 year old football players who chose to play in c-bus instead of going elsewhere where benefits may not have been so generous were easy pickings. moC is probably the most visible and vocal in giving us a picture of the level of benefit giving at osu. TP is not far behind. There are certainly others. The tip of the iceberg idea works well here. These players, MoC and TP, representing only a small number of them over the years, found it desirable to advantage themselves financially while they played college football. After all, these high school players, the ones that had high level skill sets, felt entitled and would find their entitlement fulfilled if they committed to play for osu. In that regard, osu may be a flagship but they'd be a better fit in that role in the SEC.

Look, osu fans are not going to see things differently. They are not going to agree with other CFB fans, this group included, that osu's success on the football field during jim tressel's tenure as HC was achieved by questionable means. The least of which, if you subscribe to the smoke and fire analogy, and I do, was getting free tattoos. There was more. Much more.

I think the degree to which osu lied and cheated is debatable for a decade as to degree, we could argue and debate whether or not osu's misdeeds are more like those of Auburn's, USC's, Oregon's, Miami's? That would be a reasonable and productive discussion. But to argue that osu/ tressel erred only to the extent that either made poor choices in the matters that they faced during tressel's time is a fool's argument.

[Pasadena Blue]

what he said