M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Tony G]

My guess Tony is that you never really saw Woody coach and how his tantrums and rants shamed the name of the team from Ohio.

You are wrong Stan. I am 52 years old. I did see all of the U-M OSU games for Bo vs. Woody. I saw Bo coach from the sidelines with the same ferocity that his mentor did. Would I want my kid to go play for Woody or Bo? I would have chosen Bo. I would not have been afraid to let Coach Hayes teach my son (were I to have had one) nor Coach Schembechler. I can honestly say I would have prefered Hayes to teach my son than Moeller or Carr.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Heh. Mooch

The best Michigan-born NFL coach appears to be Tony Dungy

[Jeff Buchanan]

Frankly, I like Stan's take ......

No resume, in my book, is worth a shit if it includes getting fired, committing assault or lying to an official investigatory body.

Would you hire a guy with a resume like that? Never mind. I'm asking people that think tressel is a saint.

Bo moves ahead of every osu coach on the list.

The NFL guys? Why are we even talking about them?

The rest? I really don't care ...... as long as a Michigan coach surpasses in reputation and accomplishments on the football field of every dick-head ohioan that walked the side-lines in that monstrous Stalinist relic called the shoe.

I don't think there is a question in a sane man's mind Bo did that.

..... and ferGod'ssake, Sherman was a f'ing soldier who had one objective: the viability of the Union. He helped to achieve that but without any conscience whatsoever. He was useful for his time despite his Ghengis Kahn approach to warfare. Unfortunately his post Civil War behavior in the West should bring shame to any American but it is a tradition in ohio to have none of that whatsoever. And did I mention, ......

F*** osu.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I take it as a stark admission that you cannot mount an adequate defense of Bo's resume vis-a-vis Woody that you resort to character assassination instead.

Bo's temperament was only slightly more controlled than Woody's, btw. He wasn't all peaches and cream on the sidelines, to the media, or to his players. And as even Stan attested a couple weeks ago, it's known that at least a handful of his players were taking gifts/cash.

Bottom line...

The coaching talent that has come out of Ohio is astounding. It's remarkable that a state right next door, with nearly equal population, has so few native sons to brag about.

Michigan's best are:

Bob Devaney
Tony Dungy
Bump Elliott
Forest Evashevki
Kirk Ferentz
Bill McCartney
Bennie Oosterbaan
George Perles

Ohio produces the better athletes AND the better football minds. I guess Michigan produces guys better suited to sell pizza

[THE_WIZARD_]

Bob Devaney took a Nebraska program that in 1961 was absolutely abysmal and turned NU into a national power. He built NU and Osborne perfected it. I think because Devaney's tenure was relatively short at NU compared to many of the greats (1962-72) he doesn't get mentioned as much.

Thank you Michigan.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Osborne & Frank Leahy both from Nebraska.

Mark Richt too

[hack]

Forget all that -- it's true that Bo was a man of integrity and Woody was the coach of OSU (say no more). But if you're wondering what a guy with no dog in the fight thinks, most sports fans consider the head-to-head record the most direct way to compare two sides.

That said, I think for a lot of Michigan fans the Cult of Bo isn't because of his on-Saturdays resume. It's to a large degree because of the legacy of his program -- a way of doing things and a way of acting that has been attacked and survived and will ensure sustained success. And it's no surprise OSU fans don't get that, or want to get that.

[Dr. Strangelove]

But if you're wondering what a guy with no dog in the fight thinks, most sports fans consider the head-to-head record the most direct way to compare two sides.

No, completely wrong. Someone without a dog in the fight is going to see Woody with three national titles and Bo with none and a 5-12 bowl record.

No one except a Michigan homer is going to think a 5-4-1 head-to-head record trumps all other accomplishments any more than they'd think Earle Bruce was better than Bo based on head-to-head. Can't have it both ways. Either body of work matters or it doesn't. If it doesn't, Bruce > Bo.

And no one outside Michigan believes in your messianic cult, sad to say.

[iam416]

Jesus. The Cult of Woody is nearly fucking identical. The Cult of Bo, in fact, was a cheap imitation of his master, mentor and hero. Meh, whatever.

The record is indisputable, as DSL outlined. Somehow a 5-4-1 record in the 10-year war trumps everything. Well, in that case, Earle Bruce was a better coach than Bo. 5-4, afterall -- no tie!

Look, if M fans are willing to concede Earle Bruce was a better head coach than Bo, so be it. I would also consider Earle an Ohio guy.

So, Hack, is Earle a better coach than Bo? You've already given me the answer. LMAO.

[hack]

Hey look -- I've been honest about Bo's limitations and I'm not going to pretend he was better than some of those others like Brown etc. and never started out even trying. I've also been honest about why Bo is so well remembered here. I've also said that there's a lot of variables that go into a very systematic and fair comparison of coaches. So I don't think that by pointing out that head-to-head is the first option when sports fans compare implies that I think that's all that goes into it. That was just, yet again, an example of someone on this forum having to point out the foolishness of something DSL said. A real Bo/Woody comparison would be more complex, but for a lot of sports fans, they're gonna start with the head-to-head and the less thoughtful among them might just stop there.

If you wanna compare the ``cults'', well, bring it on! One was an amoral shithead who relied on a rivalry to deflect attention from his own vile behaviour (it's always possible that a gas station in Milan could be owned by a regional operation based in and capitalized out of, say, Toledo, but Woody needed a dog to kick), and the other was universally admired for being everything good and just about humanity.

[iam416]

I can't think of a variable, other than HtH, which favors Bo over Woody. Just like I can't think of a variable, other than HtH, which favors Earle over Bo.

Bo is undoubtedly a hero to the M fanbase. That doesn't get him the top 5 of Ohio coaches. And with Stoops and Urban still putting work in, his days of even being a credible top 7 pick may be numbered.

It's not about Bo. It's about the greatness of Ohio coaches. Bo is, undoubtedly, a legend. Ohio, however, has produced lots of legends in the coaching ranks.

[Paul L]

It's funny how these two clowns obsess over an "irrelevant" program 24/7.

Much like Paterno (but to a lesser degree, obviously), Woody is simply viewed as nothing more than a stain on the anals of college football history, forever reduced to a punchline as the bully who was canned for slugging that poor, defenseless, Charlie Bauman.

Guess that doesn't come into play in determining the "success" of a CF head coach.

[hack]

No doubt about it -- Ohio is a football hotbed. You'd be absolutely nothing without that. It's a huge natural advantage, and if you ever manage to get your act together you might even use it to close the gap on your chief rival. But nobody up here is worried. You're actually losing that natural advantage as more of the normal people in your state choose to play for Michigan. You'll always be the cheaters that you are and the junior partners in the rivalry.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Find me a list of alltime great college coaches from a non-Michigan source and I'm quite confident Bocephelus will appear below Wayne Woodrow Hayes.

But Talent reminds us that this isn't really about Bo vs. Woody. That's argument's settled. Woody wins. It's really about Ohio Coaches vs. Michigan Coaches and trying to explain why Michigan has failed to produce talent in the coaching field at the same rate Ohio does.

They seem to have pizza entrepreneurs aplenty, but good coaches? Another story.

[iam416]

you might even use it to close the gap on your chief rival.

LMMFAO. Congrats, Hack. That actually made me LOL. Good work.

Eh, Urban will give it a go. I know pounding your ass seven straight was just a start, and I know losing last year really set OSU back, but I feel pretty good about Urban reconvening the annual November asswailing of the second-best program in Michigan.

Heh.