M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[iam416]

Well, he loved Coach Tressel and committed early to him (as did Kalis, of course). And we wouldn't be having this discussion if Coach Tressel was still at OSU (for either player).

Given what I *know* your opinions of Coach Tressel are, you'd have to concede your "hope" seems far-fetched.

[Rocky Bleier]

He was wearing scarlet-colored glasses when he committed to Tressel. But now his eyes are clear and he can see the virtue of Hokemania, brother!

[iam416]

For B10 Media Days, I think Hoke should come to the podium to "Real American"....maybe even give a shooting arrow pose....I might even change my mind on him if he does that....

[Jeff Buchanan]

How's this pose work for ya:

[iam416]

I thought this was interesting:

bellhead wrote: Nevada...

You had posted several days ago about the effects of economics on college football.. Basically hiring a top coach produces dollars. Did the administration see the light about mid way through the current season when revenue was down and how much of an effect did this have as to why we are seeing money thrown at Meyer and his gang of assistants?

Thanks

Ohio State is in the midst of a billion dollar capital campaign----the first nine months of 2011 were the lowest in the past 25 years of giving.....


based upon early returns OSU may STILL hit their capital goal for the year---and that is basically only with the month of December to work with


gives you a small idea of the impact of Meyer

[Dr. Strangelove]

Sad news...former OSU hoops and River Rouge HS star Brent Darby has passed away due to heart complications, only 30 years old

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120611aaa.html

[Jeff Buchanan]

As a business model, paying coaches (execs) 10 mill or more collectively to enhance revenue generation (ostensibly giving/ticket sales), makes little sense ....... but it works. For the sports of Football and B-Ball. It's like a Broadway show (entertainment)

Coaches have to produce a show that sells tickets. Easy. You win you sell tickets and giving increases; you lose, the opposite happens ..... because its a bad show and the show closes. I think Bill Martin understood this principle when he hired Rodriguez, but Rodriguez had no clue and fell flat on his ass trying to stick to some fanciful formula he had for winning. The show was partially entertaining but in the end it was a monumental flop.

The academicians could argue college sports were NEVER intended to work like this and they do, quite loudly, with the NCAA backing them up trying to deny that's not how this works. It's like pissing into the wind and helps explain why the NCAA is already pretty useless and will ultimately die a slow death as its uselessness gets in the way of making MORE money.

The reality is that even Yost envisioned selling tickets to support a game that no college president in his right mind wanted to have anything to do with .... unless and of course, it advanced the reputation of the University. Hence the strange bed-fellows college presidents and ADs have become; and this says nothing about the massive cheating and corruption that has propped up the entire endeavor for two centuries and that the current crop of sports journalists think there getting some kind of new scoop and are writing big new stories.

So, meyer is the Producer and has an opportunity to produce a show that will sell out on a regular basis. Tough duty. Given the business model, I'd be very reluctant to get involved in such an undertaking. High risk with the potential for failure being pretty damn high.

[Optimus Prime]

It appears Stoops may tell Urban Meyer to stick it, can't blame him. Gee & Smith have carved Tressel & now Fickell up nicely and yet remain employed? So much for the "Dream Team".....

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-12-06/mike-stoops-open-to-becoming-nebraskas-defensive-coordinator

[iam416]

Coach Stoops apparently prefers coaching with his brother. Hard to begrudge him that. Would have loved to have him, though.

Buchanan:

When Yost & Co. were paying players, it wasn't cheating. It was only cheating when the NCAA said it was.

As for UFM, it's a high pressure job, no doubt. There's no real patience for anything less than 10 wins.

What I'd still like to see is a quantification of the real value of a successful football program to a University. We know the pure revenue it generates and we can quantify that easily. What I'd like to know is the effect success/failure has on University's ability to raise money, long-term.

I'd start with SMU and look at University fund-raising pre/post death penalty.

I'd look at Oregon in the 1980s throught he mid 90s as compared to today.

I would also look at smaller schools. Marshall, South Florida and Boise would be great schools to look at, I think, because they came from either 1-AA or nothing.

The value of a University's football brand to the University, I think, is a really interesting question.

[WM Wolverine]

Only accusation remotely resembling that remark Talent is that Yost was one of the first but not the only that bent the rules in terms of recruiting kids that really didn't belong at a university. As usual, you've done just the opposite of what you've done with the Ohio situation; made a mountain out of a mole hill.

[iam416]

The point was that it wasn't "cheating" until the NCAA came around. Lots and lots of players got paid. Pitt underclassmen, for chrissakes, went on strike b/c they weren't getting paid enough! I now understand that M never engaged in any such shenanigans. No matter how widespread it was in CFB. Ever. My apologies.

Should I insert a snide remark to match yours? Nah. I was just trying to have a decent discussion with Buchanan.

[iam416]

On the recruiting front, "insiders" say Dodson is officially out of Camp Mouthbreather and with the good guys. Pittman is 99% of the way out of Camp Grump and with the good guys. And Dodson and Pittman will be in Cbus this weekend with Diamond and Dunn.

Next weekend could see the most 5* OVs in a single weekend for OSU -- ever (or, heh, just Spence). It will be really nice when UFM actually gets his staff in place and doesn't have to lean solely on 3 assistants. Man, I'm really looking forward to the 2013 class.

[WM Wolverine]

I expected those two (Pittman & Dodson) to end up at Ohio all along. Diamond isn't looking likely for the Wolverines, he's might've soured on M after seeing them chase others harder, disappointed in his comments about competition after guys like Magnuson & Kalis committed.

[iam416]

Frankly, Ohio State ought to be a "logical" destination for any really good tackle. Shit, Kalis may have been in the two-deep *this* season.

I like 6 OL for OSU and I *think* UFM will try to convert Fragel to an OT (should have been done awhile ago but Tressel promised him, when he recruited him, that he'd be a TE--well, Tressel is gone and holy hell does OSU need OTs). But that's it. Any decent OT recruit will land in the two-deep. So, if they can snag Dodson and Diamond, that's a godsend. To call OT a position of need is a massive understatement.

[Jeff Buchanan]

When Yost & Co. were paying players, it wasn't cheating. It was only cheating when the NCAA said it was.

Good point. I think what's important for people involved in such disucssions to understand is that ethically questionable behavior involving players and coaches has gone on since the very first game of football was played in America. In my view, the NCAA, while it has made a feeble atttempt to do so, has failed miserably in that attempt creating way more problems than it has solved.

As fans, and in an effort to soil our opponent's image, we can become so vocal in those efforts that history, logic and good judgement gets lost. Of course, its up to the institutions that have big time football to conduct themselves with a modicum of good behavior ..... since the NCAA is totally incapable of regulating that in any meaninful way and, IMO, probably should not be trying to do it. Some programs do this better than others.

What I'd like to know is the effect success/failure has on University's ability to raise money, long-term.

Interesting. I think, in general, its obvious (but you are right, not yet quantified). I know that giving declined drastically at M at the end of Rodriguez's second season according to people I know with contacts inside the U. The office was "like a morgue" for several months when regular donors are usually calling to pledge.

I think if we ever got to look at numbers, the relationship between winning and giving would be shockingly strong. The perception that the coaching staff is strong or weak, with that perception being absolutely right or terrifically flawed, I would surmize, also has a direct relationship to giving. The Rock Star status of um, for example, is going to produce a lot "giving" ..... and my God, Bro, you better hope it's above board and not under the table.

The value of a University's football brand to the University, I think, is a really interesting question.

......... which is apparently fully understood by the osu BoT.

Polish that apple.