M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[iam416]

the NCAA has little power or ability to do something unless someone slips up or a whistleblower comes along.

Correction -- they also can assrape you if you learn of a rules violation and self-report. To wit, Ohio State. You're right, the NCAA does have to rely on institutions reporting wrongdoing and, un-fucking-fortunately, Ohio State is probably one of the few who actually do. F me. The SEC is laughing their fucking assess off. (A) self-reporting a coaching legend...heh (B) the trivial dollar amounts they're getting raked for...such amateurs....

And jesus christ -- giving a private organziation subpoena power -- fuck that -- this is America. They already have the power to compel member institutions to provide information. Giving the f'n NCAA -- of all institutions -- the power of a Federal Court is criminally f'n insane.

As for the NCAA, at this stage, I don't care if exists or not. The whole notion of "amateurism" that they've foisted on us in order to gain power sickens me. It sickens me that the media criminalizes kids for earning/taking money. In what world is that immoral? I have to read OSU boards about what terrible people Posey and Herron are --stupid, maybe -- but bad people? C'mon. Herron was "overpaid" under $300 (Miami players were reinstated after 1 game and, within days, for taking anything less than $300).

One day, the powers are going to tell the NCAA to F off and take March Madness if the NCAA doesn't start implement significant reforms. I guarantee that. And if they don't, I'll rejoice when it happens.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I'll hand it to you that you see and acknowledge the seriousness of the osu circumstance. I do think you underplay what is the likely outcome for osu. The program is headed for a long period in the wilderness .... and should be.

The outcome is going to affect recruiting and Brionte Dunn is probably osu's first casualty among many that will find their way to the hated football program up north because talented young men that play football are not going to want to deal with the years of suck in c-bus that are almost certainly ahead.

I don't agree with the implication of your thoughts that osu is a program among many others that have run afoul of established rules that are seriously flawed and therefore the osu football program should be viewed without consideration of the play for pay schemes present that aid current osu players and likely aided former players for a long time.

I agree with you that the SEC is full of programs that are doing and have done things that are comparable to osu's rule breaking and have gotten away with it because they don't self report to the extent that osu has.

But you would be the first person to laugh opposing defense counsel out of the court room for presenting a defense for the accused using the logic that everyone does it, it's OK, no fine, no foul, set the accused free. No, off with their heads and that is exactly my sentiment having put up with the boasting of the osu nation - with you among them ..... "a bowl of dick," indeed. Heh. Look who is NOT laughing now.

Granted, you've been pretty fair in all of this but there is that lingering defense, esp. the one you advanced when you decided to make a return appearance to this venue, of tressel and the institution that is osu.

I'm not buying it. tressel, his superiors and probably the regents, it appears, may have embraced the underground system that allowed players to receive benefits to which they are not entitled as student athletes. Why? Because tressel, for a decade, and before his cheating was discovered, returned osu to a position of the Flagship of the Big Ten that allowed the rabble in c-bus to claim regional superiority over the Big Ten, dominance over Michigan football in particular and preeminence at the national level. Flagship? Laughably, not any more.

tressel, in particular, probably enabled the continuance of such a system by looking the other way at these payments/benefits, thereby creating an environment that further enabled and perpetuated the questionable behavior of certain osu football players. Shame on him and double shame for authoring books intended to make him out to be a different character than the discovery of the extent of unethical behavior that is now being revealed (there will be more) that casts him in a much different light.

I think it is believable that there are players at osu committed to their program who never took benefits that other players did flagrantly during tressel's time and without regard for others or the impact discovery of their misdeeds might have on the program. The problem here is that if some committed players did know about others receiving benefits (and I don't see how they could not know and it is a matter of public record that former players have implied they knew), they should have confronted the transgressors or reported their conduct to someone who would listen and that would not have been coach tressel it seems or gene smith who I believe is knee deep in the middle of this despite his statements to the contrary. I feel pretty confident gordon gee knew as well. Thus, the innocent are guilty of inaction where action was called for. They are no better than the guilty that have already been publically identified.

In my mind, anyway, and regardless of what the final outcome is regarding punishments handed down by the NCAA, osu is done as any kind of program to which one might want to honor or aspire to behave as this program has. We're going to find out if there is any character left in c-bus and at osu. I think osu can rebuild. How long that takes is going to be up to how courageous those that hold sway on the program can be. osu needs Michigan's resolve; it needs the kind of leadership that came out of Michigan's front office in dealing with the Rodriguez debacle; it needs a cadre of former players who understand what it means to be a buckeye that can join together to insist on a return to integrity inside the osu football program. It can happen. Will it? I have my doubts. osu will never be like Michigan.

[iam416]

Nothing good is going to come from discussing this, Buchanan. You're post is so full of bullshit that I can't take the serious parts seriously. And it's really not worth rehashing the same old stuff because we know what that ends up looking like.

Ohio State is not heading into the wilderness. But after years of playing court jester to the King, you're entitled to your fantasy.

Anyway, enjoy this season. By next year, order will be restored.

[Rocky Bleier]

It'll be interesting to see what happens next season. Will t*su really clean up their act, or will they hire a big name coach, put up a fence around Ohio, and cover their tracks more effectively? I suspect it will be the latter. It's hard to change a culture of cheating that has existed for such a long time. Especially true when you have such a ravenous fan base, who have taken the Al Davis mantra to heart.

[*JD*]

I don't get a lot of schadefreude from the Schlichter story. He obviously has a major problem. He was a #1 draf choice who through his life away bcause he couldn't stop gambling.

Good point.

On the bright side I think he brought Detroit a couple of Arena League titles.

[Pasadena Blue]

Talent, what do you project are the likely NCAA penalties based on the new findings?

I agree with you that Ohio is better equipped (being the only legitimate program in a talent-rich state) to avoid being derailed (i.e. heading off into the wilderness) than M, but I am curious to see what your expectations are for a fair punishment.

[iam416]

PB:

First, fair and the NCAA aren't ever to be used in the same sentence other than "The NCAA isn't fair." or variations thereof.

Second, it's impossible to predict what the NCAA will do. Given what they did with UT hoops, which I think is closely analogous to what the NCAA had in front of them in August (coach lying --10.1 -- was it), I'd say not much. Does the fact that Posey and Herron, idiots that they are, took "extra benefits" after getting caught for the Tat-5 (and, amazingly, after Tressel's press conference) change things? Maybe. The biggest thing the "new" (NCAA has know for awhile) violations do is push back the ultimate decision -- which is what OSU really needs to move forward. That's the killer.

As of right now, I'll predict a modest scholarship reductions...maybe 3-5 per year for a couple years. Until the NCAA adds a FtM or LoIC charge, I don't think they'll get hammered. Before the "new" violations, I would have said they get off with the self-imposed stuff.

Again, reading tea leaves and trying to predict what an organization is going to do that, by its own admission, doesn't follow precedent is next to impossible.

Also, thanks for the fair question. Always happy to respond in kind.

[whodean]

Ya'll don't need to worry about a NCAA bowl ban this year, that too appears to be self imposed.

[iam416]

That's why we need a ruling ASAP. If it comes out in the middle of December, it won't apply to this season. Bah.

[geo weidl]

Keep up the good work gene! Keep looking under those rocks.

[Michael Pitts]

Reading at Rivals that is Devir Posey allegedly done at OSU.

[Michael Pitts]

From Rivals poster:

A source confirmed Posey is likely done at OSU. In fact, “likely” might be far too optimistic in regards to No. 8 in Scarlet and Gray.

“He’s done,” the source said. “He’s a repeat offender, he was receiving the most money from the faux-job with Bobby D (shamed OSU booster Bobby DiGeronimo) and they know he got some free rounds of golf. There is no way Posey ever plays (for OSU) again.”

As for how most of the information about Posey came to light, Buckeye fans can thank Terrelle Pryor, who was willing to “tell all” (or pretty close) in order to make the case he was going to be suspended for the entirety of the 2011 college football season. Originally, the NFL was not going to permit Pryor to be in the supplemental draft because only players that have been ruled ineligible for a full year by the NCAA are usually allowed in. WOW

If I shouldn't be posting this here, just let me know. Not trying to steal this as my own, just relaying info.

[Rocky Bleier]

And one less Schmucks receiver:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7059170/verlon-reed-ohio-state-buckeyes-season-torn-acl

[geo weidl]

Doesn't really matter Mike, o-lie-o is on the up and up right now.

At least that is what we have been told.

[hodgkal]

After reading that Atlantic Monthly article it is apparent to me that the NCAA itself is in a very insecure position, sort of like a middle man that takes a cut but adds little or nothing to the final product. They depend on bowl and TV revenues for their income. If they come down too hard on programs that are big money makers they risk slaying the goose that lays the golden egg. BTW, for those who have not yet read this article it is worth the time, but it is quite long. I don't have a handy link since I already subscribe to the print version of the magazine. It was posted somewhere upstream.