M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[hack]

The standards of justice demanded by the Wolverine faithful, where any wild allegation is tantamount to proof, is obscenely un-American.

Wolverine fans, your standards of evidence might play well in a Stalin show trial or in 1692 Salem, but an austere body like the NCAA holds itself to a higher standard.

Finally some high-quality bullshit -- Stalin, Salem and austere NCAA in just one sentence! If you were capable of such why have you been giving us the bottom-drawer stuff this whole time?

[*JD*]

Iam416lbs. is talent?

[Optimus Prime]

DSL & Talent... actually you guys should be rejoicing, this is OSU's Bastille Day!

It came at the mere cost of utmost humiliation coupled with the purging of Tressel's entire record at Ohio St., too steep a price to pay? I don't think so, once your institution get's assigned a probation office there is a real chance to come clean, play by the rules and earnestly change your program around.

Where does it stand now...Fickell meet Cooper!

PS Think he went to Church this morning, you know, now that the gig is up?

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

[hack]

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


Depends on if this man is in Ohio at the time.

[Optimus Prime]

The "Yardbarker" article is horrible. Basically a rehash of most insipid and fatuous arguments out there.


Wouldn't dispute that, there is just so much negative press out there. The Plain Dealer does a nice job of reminding us that Tressel would still be coaching today if it were not for the Federal Sting that forced Tressel to act, it's not like he suddenly developed a conscience. How did he respond? Went to great lengths to hide the information from his employer.... the Infractions Committee must never lose sight of this evidence.

AGAINST OHIO STATE

1. Because of violations with the football program and basketball program within the past five years, Ohio State is eligible for repeat-violator status. That allows the committee to hand out more serious penalties. Ohio State has argued that though it qualifies by the letter of the rule, it shouldn't be considered a repeat violator.

2. As pointed out by one NCAA expert, though the Buckeyes did self-report the initial tattoo-related violations, it's not like they found them on their own. They were forced into action by the Justice Department findings during a drug raid of a tattoo parlor. Without that, this very well may never have come to light.

3. Yes, Tressel was forced out, but only after Ohio State vehemently defended him at a March 8 news conference and initially gave him only a two-game suspension and a $250,000 fine. The administration wasn't quick to reach the decision with Tressel they are now leaning on.

4. Ohio State's initial 12-day investigation in December, which led to the conclusion that the tattoo problems were an isolated case and didn't uncover Tressel's previous knowledge, could be seen as shoddy. And that helped lead to the decision for the suspended players to be allowed to play in the Sugar Bowl.

5. This could be a time for the NCAA to make a point, with reform and a desire to seriously punish violators in the air. And the NCAA hit USC, another popular, dominant program, with huge penalties, a loss of 30 scholarships and a two-year bowl ban, in 2010. So the committee may not be afraid to hurt a marquee program.

[hack]

Common sense would tend to conclude that they will absolutely get nailed -- as has been pointed out, the standards here are not the same as in a legal proceeding. Everyone knows that whether it's Clarett, Smith, Pryor or whomever, there's always an appalling and craven story ongoing in Tresselstan. Everyone knows this is a school that did its best to play it SEC style and failed and everyone knows they tried to prove that the NCAA is as dumb as it looks. And everybody knows that the NCAA's credibility is on the line as USC ignores its terms and Auburn's Cam Newton argument was let through.

Yet all that goes up against linesman's simple point -- OSU has friends to protect it, and those may prove to be exceptionally loyal friends who may lose their jobs in the fallout. We'll see, but pointing out common sense conclusions like the ones above seems irrelevant at this point.

[Jeff Buchanan]

OK .... so, I read it:

http://the-ozone.net/football/2011/Tresselaffair/CaseSummary/CaseSummary01.html

Its a decent report, very thorough. What struck me is one sentence on page 15. There are no indications that tressel spoke to anyone else, especially inside the institution, about this (the cicero email and jt's actions following it's receipt).

IOW, there is no smoking gun tying tressel to conversations with smith, gee or compliance/enforcement officials according to the NCAA.

OK. I can live with this ..... for now. I would point out that based on what has been reviewed to date, there are no facts that unequivocally refute or support the statement that tressel never told his superiors about the cicero emails or his discussions with the tat5.

The letter indicates that the invesitgation was limted in its scope to the question of inappropriate benefits being recieved from Rife (tats) and the selling of memorabilia by players.

From what I can tell, the NCAA is convinced that the complinace apparatus in place at osu is functioning now and has been functioning correctly since 2009 (as far back as the NCAA investigators looked) ..... that is to say, they did not find any evidence to the contrary.

I read and re-read the paragraphs that discussed the selling by student athletes of what are called awards (we know this as memorabilia and equipment). It appears to me that the NCAA found nothing wrong with how awards were accounted for by osu officials and then provided to others (apparently within the scope of NCAA regulations). My only question here is if there was nothing wrong procedurally within osu's compliance effort or ethically, as that term is defined by the NCAA, then why did it continue?

My view is that osu alleges it did everything it was supposed to or could do with athletes subject to NCAA authority and its not our fault that the athletes continued to sell awards for cash (and I'm not clear about whether this is within the rules or not). In my view, if enforcement of the rules is adequate, the behavior in question stops.

I would argue that it appears that Compliance knew about the problems or potential for problems with award sales by athletes, educated the athletes that they should not be doing this and then let it happen. tressel's approach, acting independently and without informing either smith or Compliance officials, appears to indicate a dubious apporach to discipline; he is quoted as actually telling atheltes (redacted), "I don't know what it is you are doing and I don't want to know what you are doing but stop doing it." He also told the tat5 boys (names redacted but presumed) to stop haning with Rife. Follow-up? Not as far as the NCAA report is concerned.

While it is true that the NCAA reported it was not able to find evidence to demonstrate that there was misuse of vehicles or that players got discounts when purchasing vehicles, there is a ton of anecdotal evidence to suggest that athletes did get benefits of uncertain value (maybe within the rules, maybe not) that other students would not have gotten.

Yes, compliance educated football staff and staff warned athletes not to violate the rules that but if reports (in particular those stories developed by ESPN and Fox) are accurate (and I will acknowledge there can be supposition that they are not), athletes at worst didn't seem to care a wit about breaking the rules where benefits are concerned or at best didn't care about the perception that they were breaking the rules (the no big deal, that's the way it is attitude among osu fans ... not dsl or talent).

That goes to encouraging and fostering an atmosphere of compliance. It is one thing to tell someone not to do something; it is another to actually enforce a rule to change behavior. This has been an issue for all of us who question what has been going on at osu since tressel's arrival there. The exposure of the tat5's actions, with the admitted lying and cover up by their head coach (and I'll be quick to point out for talent's and dsl's benefit, only coach tressel .... for now and, yes, only one lie), are we not entiteld to a, "onl;y the tip of the iceberg" view?

Flavor our suspicions with reports by campus police of athlete's cars not being registered as they should have been (according to reports despite football staff being told they were'nt registered), players free wheeling in them on campus and around town, hanging in back rooms with a convicted felon, playing golf on someone else's bill at a local country club,; it's stuff like this that makes me want to be counted among the supicious.

But, talent, I appreciate the clarity, no matter how suspicious it might be, of your argument in response to my earlier post.

[lineygoblue]

JD - Yes.

[iam416]

Buchanan:

Good post. The only thing I'd take any really issue with is the take on compliance. Certainly, violations are one way to measure whether compliance is doing its job. However, as with an unit charged with stopping an activity, you sort of know they're never going to stop all of it. Police departments aren't labeled a failure if a murder occurs. And we don't pour money into the department or wholly revamp everything b/c crimes still occur. Any unit charged with enforcement will face an asymptotal wall when it comes to results.

I think that's why the NCAA looks at procedures and mechanisms and then, when it breaks down, self-reporting.

Finally, of course you're entitled to your "tip of the iceberg" opinion. Frankly, you're probably in the majority, and if not, certainly a plurality. My principle point comes to the "evidence" that supports that opinion and whether that evidence has sufficient probative value to have currency before the NCAA.

As a sidenote, I'm now taking any bit of journalism in this vein very cautiously. I mean, I'm going to want to go to the actual team message boards and read what they're saying before I judge any piece. Kudos, as I said before, to Wetzel for at least confining himself to facts. The rest, eh...some were worse than others, but, on the whole, a bunch of idiots.

[Optimus Prime]

Bunch of PoppyCock! Best used for wrapping fish or training puppies.

I guess now that Tressel is in the car business full-time, can I get one of those "Sweet Leases" from Tressel Motors?!?

[Optimus Prime]

Brace yourself DSL, this is how the Mo Clarett shit started, first you fail at attempting to strongarm the NFL. Next a Bronco full of hostages, Jack Daniels riding shotgun alongside a loaded Kalashnikov.


Pryor is still seeking a meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell to make a case for being declared eligible, sources told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen on Sunday.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6861571/terrelle-pryor-wants-state-case-eligibility-nfl-supplemental-draft

[geo weidl]

Wonder if saint jim will be there holding his hand.

[hack]

``Terrell, here's $5. Now give it to the nice man and tell him what you want...''

[iam416]

It's actually a shame TP can't get into the Supplemental Draft. Indeed, it would seem his case is exactly what the Supplemental Draft is for. I understand that he might not be within the "letter" of the draft requirements, i.e., despite all that has been "reported", he would have still had eligibility left prior to signing with an agent. But, it seems his case is exactly in line with the spirit of the draft.

I don't particularly wish him any ill will. And even if I did, I think it's fairly obvious he's getting the screws put to him. Hopefully it'll resolve itself favorably for him.

[hack]

Musings on letter and spirit are probably best avoided by you actually...