M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[DennisT]

I am truly sorry I got caught.

That can't be for real.

[hack]

When one is asked to prove a negative, pointing to the other side's "lack of evidence" is often the best you can do. Though, I understand that "Michigan Men" would prefer that Ohio State be asked to prove a negative and then be unable to point to a lack of evidence for the positive.

In any event, there is evidence in support of Ohio State and a lack of evidence in support of allegations beyond those before NCAA. I'm fine with that.

According to the rules of the game, you are very likely right. Your guys have played this game exceptionally well, which we all know is not the same as not cheating. We've all known about Cheatingpants McSweatervest, or whatever the nickname is, for years now.

[iam416]

Tressel screwed up. Very sorry to see that.

Ohio State self-reported both the players and the Tressel e-mail. Appropriate.

As I said, if you start from point of "prove to me you're NOT cheaters" -- well, good luck. I could ask the same thing of you and your program. And you'd be in the same boat as I.

The "rules of the game," at least in our country, are such that when a person is trotted before a tribunal of almost any sort, the general rule isn't "prove to me you didn't do it." There are rare exceptions, but that's the way we -- the U.S. (and most every other country based on English law) assess punishment.

Ohio State, however, no doubt lost the PR battle. And I've been vocal about how poorly that was handled. As I've repeatedly said, the thing that most damns OSU's PR efforts is, what I believe to be, the fact that most people would say, if asked, that Ohio State did NOT self-report Tressel's failure to pass along the Cicero tip. So there remains the truth and what people think the truth is. Ohio State has clearly lost the latter.

[hack]

You should be very sorry! Either you get Meyer and have a chance at moving or, or you will forever be known as the team that can't beat UM without cheating.

[iam416]

Since we're talking public perception, I'm rather certain the public perception is that Ohio State beats M like a rented stepmule whenever it damn well pleases. I appreciate your desperate gloss, but such is life for someone who hasn't seen a win over Ohio State since 2003.

Jesus, that's a looooooonnnnnggggg time.

[iam416]

Anyway, can't wait for the final ruling. I'm going to really, really, really enjoy watching some folks' heads explode. Should be fun.

On to more important things -- reading about the Bauserman-Guiton-Miller battle to hand the ball off. I have a feeling this year's offense is going near 2001/2003 levels.

[hack]

It would feel a lot longer had the opponent not stripped me of any reason to respect it. I feel so much better about the past decade now. OSU has put UM's combination of bumbling and arrogance in context. It's been a crappy stretch but I'd rather that than the empty feeling you guys well eventually have about the Tressell era once the urgency of arguing on forums subsides and you settle into your long-term role as SMU with better lawyers.

Seriously, I hope you guys really clean house there. I would like to have an OSU I can respect and fear, and denigrate only in fun in the context of rivalry trashtalk. It's not so much fun when it's all actually true.

[iam416]

Fortunately, I don't care what you think about Ohio State.

Respect or not, whatever. Come November, take your whuppin' like a man. You've had plenty of practice.

[iam416]

As a final point to this stuff, I like this: in addition to USC's 32 alleged violations to Ohio State's 5, USC's hearing took three DAYS. Ohio State's hearing took a little more than 3 HOURS. Of course, I wouldn't want to dare suggest OSU shouldn't get AT LEAST "USC-type" punishments. I'll leave that to the NCAA to do -- but they won't merely suggest it.

The gnashing of teeth and wailing is ramping up. I can feel it.

[paul daugherity]

From my limited sample size, the perception outside of Ohio is that OSU cheats and gets away with it. I work in Chicago and in my office there are fans/alum from a number of Big Ten schools (e.g. Iowa, Wisconsin, Purdue, Illinois, Michigan State, Northwestern and I'll add ND, since they are a midwestern school) and all of them have said pretty much what most UM fans have long believed - they think Tressel was dirty, that OSU went along with it, but OSU has done just enough to get away with it. So I disagree that the perception of OSU hasn't changed. Not that this will matter to OSU fans, because I am sure it won't.

[iam416]

Well, I said:

"Ohio State, however, no doubt lost the PR battle. And I've been vocal about how poorly that was handled."

That goes to perception, and they've clearly lost that. ESPN, with their anti-B10 agenda might have inched it a long, but OSU lost that.

Perception isn't reality (as illustrated by my example of self-reporting), but such is life. Bottom line is there's nothing OSU can really do to prove the negative. And absent that, folks will believe what they will, factual or not.

And that's the way of this world. Honestly, I look at the current tripe Pat Forde is pushing, and people -- reasonably smart people -- believe him b/c he has the ink. That's perception -- Ohio State isn't out of hot water, yet! Reality is another case. Thankfully. So long as the NCAA sticks to factual reality, Ohio State is Kool and the Gang.

Anyway, have a good weekend. Hopefully it's now time to actually turn toward OSU football. QB has me terrified, but otherwise I feel pretty good about this team.

[hack]

You, collectively, sure as heck do care what we collectively think. And suddenly we now have a very real reason thumb our noses at you, unlike the largely manufactured ones of the past. We're gonna thump your ass in November, because Hoke knows what's at stake here and your guys are going to be quivering in their soon-to-be-sold-out-the-back-door cleats without Tressell around. For you it will be a return to the mental submission of the Cooper era, but for us it won't feel as good as it should. The respect is gone; you're just another SEC program until you prove otherwise. I hope you chumps realize what makes a rivalry a rivalry and clean up your act. I'd like to get back to a position of mutual respect and I'd like The Game to stay relevant.

Fortunately, I don't care what you think about Ohio State.

Respect or not, whatever. Come November, take your whuppin' like a man. You've had plenty of practice.

[iam416]

One of our programs was hit with Failure to Monitor. I know that much.

Anyway, speak for the OSU fanbase all you want. It amuses me. It'll be 3000 days by November. Pure awesomeness.

Have a nice weekend!

[paul daugherity]

Talent, you also posted, "Since we're talking public perception, I'm rather certain the public perception is that Ohio State beats M like a rented stepmule whenever it damn well pleases. I appreciate your desperate gloss, but such is life for someone who hasn't seen a win over Ohio State since 2003."

My post was addressing the above post. The perception is not that Ohio State beats M like a rented stepmule. It is that OSU and Tressle were skirting the rules, and OSU has gotten away with it.

Anyway, based on my conversations with people, their opinions were not based on Forde and whatever he wrote. It is more akin to a criminal case, in that things look shady, and there is reason to suspect that something funky was going on, but there is not clear and convincing or definitive evidence (like a smoking gun), and therefore, not enough to convict.

Like I said, not that OSU fans care, because I am sure they don't. They are happy to live in the bubble that is Ohio.

[Optimus Prime]

I am truly sorry I got caught.

That can't be for real.

Keen eye Dennis T, OSU has legions of reporters on staff creating spin, just trying to do my part. Tressel IMO meets the textbook definiation of a sociopath:


Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.


Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Food for thought.