M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Rocky Bleier]

I doubt they care. The SEC has been cheating BIG TIME for years and winning national championships as their reward.

[Hannibal]

That is precisely the right kind of question to be asking.

I wonder if the NCAA realizes the kind of problem they have on their hands.

No, they don't. And I don't think that they realize the potential consequences either. The perception that the star players are not amateurs and that the playing field is not level could seriously damage the popularity and the cultural relevance of the sport. I liken it somewhat to the situation that professional boxing faced in the 1980s. Corruption absolutely destroyed that sport, whose popularity and cultural relevance once compared favorably with the other major sports. Now nobody pays attention to it.

I doubt they care. The SEC has been cheating BIG TIME for years and winning national championships as their reward.

I wonder if SEC cheating has increased dramatically in the past five years, or if it has been like that for decades. I tend to think that it's the former.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The entire history of college football is riddled with corruption. A bunch of SEC teams were put on probation during the 80's. The Southwest Conference was a cesspool for decades. The Pacific Coast Conference (Pac10's forerunner) imploded in the mid-50's when it was revealed that at least half the league's teams (Oregon, Washington, UCLA, Cal) were all operating secret slush funds from which schools were paying players.

Around 1930 Iowa was nearly kicked out of the Big Ten because it was discovered they had their own slush fund, were giving HS players money to attend Iowa, and giving them bank loans.

Thanks to the age we live in I think it is far, far tougher to cheat and not get caught today than in the time of Yost and Zuppke or even Woody and Bo. Information is so much more available and immediately so. And the press is far less accommodating and willing to hide things from the general public in the way they did for many sports figures in the first half of the 20th century,

[hack]

Tougher still to win without cheating, but that's how it is done in Ann Arbor. Fans of that program are among the minority that can hold their heads high. Extra-special when we win, too.

[Ghengis Jon]

Alot of the easy-to-cheat attitude falls onto the shoulders of coaches, which trickles down to the players. The potential wrath of Bo or Woody far outstripped what the limp noodle NCAA could/would put forth. We rarely see the Bo/Woody archetypes anymore but are still stuck with a wussified NCAA. Since Athletic Departments are more concerned with revenue than athletics, thats where the sanctions should be. Draft the list of violations and attach a mandatory list of punishments for the specified transgression. Spell out the return of bowl revenues, the return of TV revenues, the return of conference profit sharing. Forfeit games, no vacating wins. Spell out x% compensation forfeiture for coaches, ADs, and college presidents to insure no one conveniently stays 'out of the loop'. Institute television bans to bring tv pressure to abide by the rules.

So long as athletic integrity plays a distant second to revenue generation, sanctions should hit the pocket book first and hardest.

[lineygoblue]

You hit it right on the head, Jon.

The NCAA may as well not even enforce its rules, unless it makes its punishments hit the offending teams in the pocketbook.

If you don't hit them in the pocketbook, then cheating is a good risk worth taking. We're about to see Auburn and OLieO laugh in the face of the NCAA by doing that very thing.

[The Oracle]

As someone said on another board, Alabama was not found guilty of LOIC and still lost 21 schollies. If OSU thinks they're still getting off with only their self imposed sanctions, they're delusional. Mainly, because there were no self imposed sanctions.

[Rocky Bleier]

Alot of the easy-to-cheat attitude falls onto the shoulders of coaches, which trickles down to the players. The potential wrath of Bo or Woody far outstripped what the limp noodle NCAA could/would put forth.

Absolutely. You feared what the old man would do to you. Society is completely freaking backward today. Here's an example:

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/06/27/teacher-punches-student-justified-self-defense/

[Jeff Buchanan]

Not a big fan of SB Nation but this is a decent piece giving another slant to how the NCAA might view osu's behavior.

The jist of it is that while the NCAA's investigators did not find any evidence that supported addtional allegations of LOIC and FTM, what they did find is that osu didn't seem to care much about the egregiousness of tressel's rule breaking and continued to employ him long after it was discoverd he had lied, multiple times, about players receiving inappropriate benefits. This resulted in inelgible players playing an entire season and another set of lies that resulted in these same players being declared eligible for a post season game.

The NCAA may choose to send a strong message here with add-on penalties above and beyond what osu has already applied.

http://www.aseaofblue.com/2011/7/24/2290849/ncaa-rules-ohio-state-coming-into-focus-tennessees-not-so-much

[Hannibal]

Funny, I don't remember Michigan getting any breaks with the basketball program even though Joe Roberson was never found guilty of having been complicit in the whole Ed Martin fiasco.

The writer makes the same logical error as lots of people (including the NCAA) when it comes to understanding the term "LOIC". No one incident is going to prove LOIC. This is because the symptom of LOIC is a pattern of behavior, and not necessarily one huge Watergate-like scandal. If the NCAA continues to interpret LOIC in the same manner as this writer, then an institution can hire a crooked coach, tell him to not keep the AD in the loop on anything, and then fire him and claim that he was a rogue coach acting on his own if he ever gets caught.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I don't disagree with your take, Hani but the actual definition is somewhat different. In the case of osu, they are arguing that the procedures to detect violations were in place, there was active enforcement of the rules by osu's compliance department but the coach subverted them. He's been fired .... nothing more to see.

In determining whether there has been a lack of institutional control when a violation of NCAA rules has been found it is necessary to ascertain what formal institutional policies and procedures were in place at the time the violation of NCAA rules occurred and whether those policies and procedures, if adequate, were being monitored and enforced. It is important that policies and procedures be established so as to deter violations and not merely to discover their existence after they have taken place. In a case where proper procedures exist and are appropriately enforced, especially when they result in the prompt detection, investigation and reporting of the violations in question, there may be no lack of institutional control although the individual or individuals directly involved may be held responsible.

[Hannibal]

It is important that policies and procedures be established so as to deter violations and not merely to discover their existence after they have taken place.

Very very clearly not happening at OSU.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Very very clearly not happening at OSU.

Thus far the NCAA disagrees

[Rocky Bleier]

I wonder if Gene Smith will continue his policy of verbal reviews for the football coach? He's as crooked as a stick in water.

[lineygoblue]

Thus far the NCAA disagrees

Only because the fox is guarding the henhouse. OLieO's friends within the NCAA are thus far protecting them from additional charges.

But you may end up being right in the long run, Strangelove. OLieO's self imposed "punishments" may end up being all that happens. Your team's friends are covering their markers.