M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Hannibal]

Equating unethical conduct in college football with the death of a todder is absolutely asinine, regardless if you meant it as a joke or not.

He's not equating unethical conduct in college football with the death of a toddler. He's comparing the processes of the obviously guilty being declared "not guilty" despite massive amounts of evidence and no plausible alternative explanation. The severity or the magnitude of the crime is completely irrelevant, despite what morons like Doctor Strangelove would tell you in an attempt to downplay analogies like this because they don't understand how they work.

The one area where this analogy breaks down is that pretty much everyone defending the Casey Anthony verdict accepts that she was almost certainly guilty, but that "almost certainly" isn't enough. Whereas the entire delusional Buckeye fan base interprets every narrow escape from the NCAA as "WE ARE PERFECTLY 100% INNOCENT DERP DERP."

[Hannibal]

A lot of analogies have been made in this case. I think that one of the best and most useful comes from George Orwell's 1984. Specifically, the concepts of doublethink and doublespeak. The idea of two mutually exclusive statements being made, and no attempt to reconcile them.

1. Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

2. Oceanis is at war with Eurasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.

Two conditions that are so obviously mutually exclusive that anyone who can't see this simply can't be argued with or reasoned with. But yet, the second statement goes unchallenged. This is only possible with massive amounts of fanaticism, oppression, conditioning, and indoctrination. Logical thought ceases to exist.

Here is another perfect example:

1. OSU claims that Jim Tressel has an excellent compliance record.

2. Andy Geiger's written evaluations of Jim Tressel say that he has a poor compliance record.

These two conditions are mutually exclusive. A logical person attempts to reconcile this and comes to the only feasible conclusion -- #1 is a lie. But neither the NCAA or OSU address this. The first condition is simply accepted without any acknowledgement that the second condition ever happened. Logic and debate become useless at this point.

[Pasadena Blue]

look nothing is going to happen to O-state ... I (and I think liney) have been saying that from the beginning. The initial treatment of the Tat5 case and the fact that these clowns were allowed to play in the Sugar Bowl tells you all you need to know about the power of O-state and Delaney ...the only way O-state was going to face stiff penalties was if Gee or Smith got up and pulled a Nicholson/Few Good Men "you're damned right I did" and said they encouraged O-state players to sell their gear.

[hack]

Kudos to you guys for being clear-headed about it. It is beyond reasoning, if it turns out that way, but this way we'll have all the more reason to hate those bastards and enjoy destroying them on the field. Which, if Hoke is up to the job, we're gonna do. A lot. This whole episode is amazing bulletin board material in a heated rivalry.

[Ghengis Jon]

Tressels's testimony before the NCAA in Feb:

http://www.dispatch.com/wwwexportcontent/sites/dispatch/sports/stories/2011/07/22/Tresell_transcript_x00139752x.pdf


Summary of the NCAA's findings:

http://www.dispatch.com/wwwexportcontent/sites/dispatch/sports/stories/2011/07/22/Case_Summary_x00139775x.pdf


osu is officially 'vindicated' in the manner of OJ Simpson.

[Dr. Strangelove]

He's not equating unethical conduct in college football with the death of a toddler. He's comparing the processes of the obviously guilty being declared "not guilty" despite massive amounts of evidence and no plausible alternative explanation. The severity or the magnitude of the crime is completely irrelevant, despite what morons like Doctor Strangelove would tell you in an attempt to downplay analogies like this because they don't understand how they work.

The one area where this analogy breaks down is that pretty much everyone defending the Casey Anthony verdict accepts that she was almost certainly guilty, but that "almost certainly" isn't enough. Whereas the entire delusional Buckeye fan base interprets every narrow escape from the NCAA as "WE ARE PERFECTLY 100% INNOCENT DERP DERP."

The bolded is exactly why such comparisons are asinine. If comparing Tressel to OJ or Casey Anthony is "legitimate" simply because all three represent some sort of "breakdown in the process", and the magnititude of the crime is irrelevant (your words), then what exactly prevents us from comparing Michigan's violations with Casey Anthony or the Third Reich?

Comparing legal activity that happens to violate the rules of a sporting contest with infanticide or genocide is and will always be tasteless and belongs to the realm of fools with no sense of scale or what's really important in life.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Note how ridiculous or asinine the following would sound:

George Brett using too much pine tar on his bat and getting away with it represents a breakdown in society and a failure of the legal process in the same way as when Casey Anthony got away with murdering her baby.

Yeah each is tearing apart the fabric of society in the same way. Sure.

Side note: WTF does Casey Anthony continue to receive enormous attention while no one outside of Cleveland has probably even heard of the serial killer who just got convicted here? I guess since it was mainly a dozen black women and junkies he killed, no one really cares.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Hanni's description of the Orewellian nature of the osu situation as it relates to the fan base's behavior and gee's and smith's handling of tressmess is about the best description of it that I have heard.

Forget about the comparisons to Casey Anthoney, Adolph Hitler and John Gotti - although all of them have some realationship to osu's circumstances however remote they might be - Orwellian is pretty accurate.

It's worth noting that Orwell had much broader political philosophies but the "doublethink," "doublespeak," concepts that appeared in 1984 are almost exactly demonstrated by the fans of ohio state who have learned to embrace inconsistent concepts without adequately analyzing them.

Yes, we may have maze and blue glasses on and our haterd of osu does tend to impair our views but from what I've seen here, the evidence, even if it is circumstantial, supports conclusions very different than what the NCAA has offered to date.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Hanni's description of the Orewellian nature of the osu situation as it relates to the fan base's behavior and gee's and smith's handling of tressmess is about the best description of it that I have heard.

Forget about the comparisons to Casey Anthoney, Adolph Hitler and John Gotti - although all of them have some realationship to osu's circumstances however remote they might be - Orwellian is pretty accurate.

It's worth noting that Orwell had much broader political philosophies but the "doublethink," "doublespeak," concepts that appeared in 1984 are almost exactly demonstrated by the fans of ohio state who have learned to embrace inconsistent concepts without adequately analyzing them.

Yes, we may have maze and blue glasses on and our haterd of osu does tend to impair our views but from what I've seen here, the evidence, even if it is circumstantial, supports conclusions very different than what the NCAA has offered to date.

No one here has actually seen "evidence". You've read allegations from a litany of sources ranging from twitter to Sports Illustrated. And most of the allegations are based upon testimony from individuals who wish to remain anonymous and apparently can't provide documentation.

[Jamie H]

Actually, that's why the Anthony case IS a good comparison. No one has any evidence that she killed her kid either. That is why she walked. But almost everyone knows she did it or was at the very least directly involved in it.

Same thing (on a hugely different scale, since college football doesn't equate to the life of a kid) is going on at OSU. Everyone knows the program is rotten to the core, but without the hard evidence, the NCAA is not going to do the right thing.

One thing I've learned in life is that all that stuff about doing the right thing and you will be rewarded is bullshit. Cheaters do win. Liars do profit. Criminals do succeed. And good people who do the right thing get screwed. That's why you have to do the right thing BECAUSE it is the right thing, not because you think it will ever do you any good.

Cheaters like Jim Tressell will always exist, and they will have tons of success and make tons of money. The world really isn't set up to stop all of them. It tries to slow them down, and some of them do pay, but the overall is still a net positive for the bad guys. That's why it's so appealing to people, as the reward often outweighs the risk. Exponentially so when you are talking about a body like the NCAA that barely wrist-slaps you for your transgressions.

[Mike]

I'm tired of losing with class.

[Hannibal]

I think that there are some walks of life where you generally can't get away with cheating. Or, if you do, the process of merely covering your ass outweighs whatever benefit that you get from cheating. College football does not appear to fit into this category.

[Mike]

100% correct. I sit here tonight and re-evaluate if Michigan is doing things the right way or if ohio and Auburn are.

[Mackenzie]

OlieO = Casey Anthony

[Jeff Buchanan]

100% correct. I sit here tonight and re-evaluate if Michigan is doing things the right way or if ohio and Auburn are.

That is precisely the right kind of question to be asking.

I wonder if the NCAA realizes the kind of problem they have on their hands.