M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[geo weidl]

There is stuff all over the internet regarding saint jim and the articles I have read are not from M nation. Seems as if everyone concludes that the axe is ready to or should fall except for the osu community. Not a real fan of holly anderson, but what she has posted is a quote.

Could Ohio State's Loss Be USC's Gain?

by Holly Anderson • Apr 26, 2011 10:58 AM EDT
CBS’s Bryan Fischer wonders whether the NCAA will have to back down from its 30-scholarship reduction levied at USC for one ineligible player, now that it’s faced with punishing the Buckeyes for fielding multiple such players for an entire season.

[Regelbuck]

Frank Epitropoulos a Buckeye

just commited today...kid had a lot of offers...including stanford....hmmm....

[Mackenzie]

Anyway you look at it, Tressel is a cheater, con artist, deceiver, dissimulator, equivocator, fabricator, false witness, falsifier, fibber, trickster, blackguard, misleader, perjurer, prevaricator, storyteller, cheat, disgrace, hypocrite, imp, limp imp, mischief-maker, miscreant, pretender, prodigal, profligate, reprobate, scamp, scoundrel, sinner, skunk, sneak, varmint, villain, wastrel, liar, rapscallion, rogue, scallywag, shyster, sneak, troublemaker, forger, fraud, phony, lying sonofabitch and skank.

[geo weidl]

Its just a verbal Regelbuck, wait till he sees what going to happen come August.

[Jamie H]

Lots of kids committed to playing for Lane Kiffin too. Kids don't always make good decisions.

[WM Wolverine]

Youngstown State received sanctions, probation and was hit with lack of institutional control after JT left. OSU knew what they were getting when they hired JT, a guy who'd bend the rules to win at all costs.

[Jamie H]

Yep, I think it was cash and cars at YSU. Of course, Tressel had "no knowledge" of what was going on, even though the guy doing the giving was personally introduced to the players by St. Jim himself.

He would have claimed "no knowledge" of this situation as well, but the trap of email caught him this time. Note to habitual rule-breakers--never NEVER discuss anything on email!

[Jeff Buchanan]

Been some good commentary today regarding putting the TressMess in historical perspective.

In the late 50s, Woody, yes, that Woody believe it or not, was widely thought to have paid players. Woody did it by giving a guy 25 bucks to go by a sport coat, 5 bucks to take his girlfriend out for a steak dinner or a buck to get a haircut. Yeah it was illegal according to the rules but nobody cared .... in fact, going way back, college football has been rife with corruption, point shaving scandals, gambling, pay-offs and the like. I have not heard anything about organized crime being involved but would not be surprised if some old-timer drug out a few stories suggesting they were involved - esp. with point shaving.

As an aside, I've not heard anything about modern M football coaches going back to the 50's, Bennie Oosterbaan and Bump Elliot "taking care of business" but I have no doubt that they did and probably pretty much like Woody did. Bo? Absolutely no way. He preached discipline which included talks, believe it or not, on not speeding or rolling through stop signs. Carr was a paragon of virtue setting the standard for winning with integrity. I suspect Moeller was that way too and it's a shame he lost it after a few drinks ... shit happens.

Rules enforcement by the NCAA did not start until 1952. The two most famous football cases involving rules violations have to be Auburn in 93 (Pat Dye and player payments) and SMU in 87 (Player contracts and a slush fund to pay them). Alabama (2001 - Dubose recruiting violations) and USC (2010 - Reggie Bush) were recently punished and undoubtedly, osu is next with Auburn (again) in the wings.

Among these visible football program punishments, I'd rank osu's a step above Alabama's and USC's in severity of rule breaking and way below Auburn ('93) and SMU ('87). Minimizing the notion that, "its just tats," misses that, if I have the number correct, players on osu's 2010 roster got nearly $13,000 in cash and non-cash benefits along with access to loaner cars, these figures appearing in the NOA.

Because the NCAA is not terribly consistent in punishing offenders for rule violations, it's hard to say what they will do with osu's rule breaking and lying. But I don't see any way that, if fairness is present, that osu's self imposed penalties stand. IMO, they are not significant enough to dissuade programs and especially head coaches from cheating in the future. In fact, if they stand as sufficient, even if tressel is fired, it's not going to do much at all to clean-up a landscape of college football and basketball that is already littered with questionable conduct. The NCAA has to be aware of this and, in the current political climate surrouding college sports, it is going to affect the severity of osu's penalties.

Any meaningful penalties that the NCAA imposes on osu have to hurt them going forward and the way to do that is scholarship reductions and bans on post season play. Frankly, I don't care what happens to tressel. Obviously, he should have been fired shortly after (within hours of) the release of the NOA. osu is hurting its image nationally by not getting rid of him.

One has to seriously wonder if gee knew and if gee fires tressel, tressel has threatened to go public with that information. If that were true, that revelation would cause the NCAA to invoke the loss of institutional control provision bringing a whole cascade of bad events on osu that would wreak untold havoc on the football program and indirectly all osu's non-revenue sports. Whoever osu's Regents are should be looking closely at this possibility and figuring out a way to defuse it. Perhaps that is what is going on right now behind the scenes and both tressel and gee will get the ax. All of that would help but, of course, will never eliminate the stink that is osu.

[Ghengis Jon]

If John Cooper had done what Tressel did, Coop would have been fired exactly one nanosecond after the brass found out. But since its Tressel, we all see the different rules osu plays by now. Like it or not, osu is content to drag the entire Big Ten through its own self-inflicted mud. Winning is everything to the schmuckeye nation, scruples be damned!

[Dr. Strangelove]

When you are talking about intentionally concealing a rule violation from the NCAA that directly affects player eligibility? Sorry, but a rule IS a rule, and it doesn't matter what rule you are concealing. If you are knowingly concealing it from the NCAA in order to avoid sanctions, it 100% wrong no matter what the rule is. Anytime you conceal a violation that would likely result in players on your team being ineligible, it is a MAJOR MAJOR violation, regardless of whether people think the rule in question is silly or not. The fact that you would even attempt to argue differently is somewhat mind-boggling, except for the fact that we already know OSU fans believe cheating is ok as long as they can call themselves winners.

Rodriguez never overtly concealed anything from the NCAA. Comparing Tressel's situation to his is a joke. The only way the situations would be equivalent is if Rodriguez had been found to have gone back and forged the records to show that the extra practice time never happened--i.e. had LIED to the NCAA.

I was not comparing Rich Rod to Tressel. It is YOUR position that it's irrelevant which broken rule Tressel was covering up. No matter how minor, IN YOUR OPINION, once you've lied to the NCAA it should all be treated the same. So why is it you don't think all NCAA violations should be treated the same, no matter how minor?

i.e. Why should Michigan get off lighter than USC? Hey, a rule's a rule right? And Michigan broke the rules. And got off pretty much with a wrist slap. A rule's a rule

[Dr. Strangelove]

Anyone who thinks they didn't cheat in the days of Fielding Yost and Red Grange is a dreamer. The NCAA didn't even exist back then. I can't say I've read a lot of college football literature from the period but I have baseball. And baseball players of the same era regularly admitted to cheating, dirty play, throwing games, tanking plays, etc. Anything who thinks it was different in college sports is nuts.

[Dr. Strangelove]

If John Cooper had done what Tressel did, Coop would have been fired exactly one nanosecond after the brass found out. But since its Tressel, we all see the different rules osu plays by now. Like it or not, osu is content to drag the entire Big Ten through its own self-inflicted mud. Winning is everything to the schmuckeye nation, scruples be damned!

Weak sauce. OSU's memorabilia fire sale tarnished the pristine Big Ten name?

What long term impact did Michigan's pay-for-play in hoops, or Northwestern's point shaving, or Minnesota's massive academic fraud have?

[Jamie H]

Wow, could you possibly distort what I said any more?

The rule being discussed here is in regards to coaches lying to the NCAA. The rule says that if coaches are aware of a rules violation in their program, they have to report it. It is in that context that I said "a rule is a rule" and coaches don't get to pick and choose which rules they will report on and which ones they will cover up. Especially involving rules that deal with player eligibility. They must report ALL rule violations, and I believe even potential violations if they aren't sure but suspect something might be a problem.

I don't care if it is the stupidest player eligibility rule in the book. If ANY coach knowingly covers up a violation of that stupid rule expressly to maintain the eligibilty of their player(s), they should be summarliy fired. End of story. The issue here is strictly a coach lying about a known rules violation within his program. The particular rule the coach knows was violated is 100% irrelevant. The issue is COVERING UP THE RULE VIOLATION.

Trying to distort my position into one where all rules violations are the same is a joke. You know that isn't what I said. If during the NCAA investigation, Rodriguez had lied to investigators and participated in a cover up the practice violations, then he should have been fired for it as well, even if the practice rule is idiotic.

If you can't tell the difference between unknowingly violating a somewhat poorly defined and confusing practice rule and intentionally lying to the NCAA about player eligibility rules violations, they you must have as little of an ethical compass as St. Jim.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I simply don't know why you can't follow the lead of your own head coach, Mr. Hoke, when he expressed admiration for Coach Tressel and declared him, without hesitation, to be a good man.

[geo weidl]

I simply don't know why you can't follow the lead of your own head coach, Mr. Hoke, when he expressed admiration for Coach Tressel and declared him, without hesitation, to be a good man.

Comeon DSL, Hoke was being polite, he knows as well as everyone in the nation, that saint jim is a liar and a cheat.