M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Jeff Buchanan]

LMAO at the raw sewage being spewed.

And this one incident does not immediately validate every wild claim ever made about Tressel, no matter how rabid his haters get.

Ahhh, another deluded osu fan.

OK, lets examine the current circumstance for osu football vis-a-vis Michigan football. I'll be the first to admit osu has dominated Michigan on the playing field in the last decade. osu's record against Michigan and, in general, in CFB has been excellent.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that records in sports become tainted, if not erased entirely, when evidence shows that those records were obtained by breaking the rules. There is no way of escaping the conclusion that osu broke the rules in 2010 ...... all the wins and the B10 Championship are gone.

The evidence also suggests that there is a pattern of behavior at osu directly involving their head coach, jim tressel. I agree with you, DSL, that the huge mistake that tressel made does not validate claims of wide spread cheating but it doesn't invalidate them either. That's osu's problem as at stands right now and the osu administration make it worse the longer they stand behind tressel.

There is going to be a cloud of suspicion surrounding every past and future accomplishment osu obtains going forward in football no matter what happens to jim tressel. Instead of praising tressel and osu, which has become the norm when any mention of that program occurs, there will be remarks about cheating, about tressel, about pryor, et. al. That is the albatross around osu's neck.

That fact is going to damage osu football .... how much isn't known yet but it will and how much it does depends, right now, on how the osu administration handles this shit sandwich that tressel has created with, what is being characterized by the osu fan base, as a minor mistake.

Ha! This is huge. Will it destroy the program and make them more vulnerable to a reversal of M's 10 year record against osu and a decade of dominance by the scarlet and gray? Perhaps. I'm counting on it. Justice is served. The CFB universe will be restored to normalcy.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Tressel may be a "good man" in other ways. But, he has now proven that when it comes to running his football program, he's just like any other coach whose eye is focused solely on winning. SeattleLionsFan makes an excellent observation when he said that Tressel needs to stop caring so much for the "stars" in his program, and think about the rest of the team. If Tressel were truly the man of integrity that Bucknut fans have led us to believe, he would have taken the following steps:

1. Investigate to see if what was reported to him was true. Finding that it was true he should have:

2. Reported his findings to the university President and Athletic Director. Then .. he should have ..

3. Tossed the 5 offending players off the team. Good bye. You did wrong, you placed our program in jeopardy of NCAA sanctions, and embarrassed yourselves, our school and our fans.

4. Submitted their findings to the NCAA. Throw open the door to NCAA investigators so that they could conduct an unencumbered investigation to the entire OhNo program, to be sure that they were compliant in all other areas.

5. Let all remaining players, and future recruits know that any actions like this will be dealt with in the same way.

But ..

Instead.. OSU is him-hawing around, trying to find a way to do damage control, keep the coach, keep the players, .. and minimize what the players did.

If they only knew how stupid they look right now.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. No. Their behavior alone only made them ineligible for a few games and wouldn't not have remotely put the program in jeopardy without Tressel's subsequent actions. And while I tend to agree with the rule, I think there's a solid case to be made that the players should be able to sell something that belongs to them. A lot of people have sympathy with that view and it paints the NCAA in a negative light. Schools are once again given a green light to make as much money as they can off their players, but the players themselves cannot profit off their own talents.

Tressel didn't cover up player sgetting free cars. He covered up their breaking of a rule that one can feasibly argue shouldn't exist. I'm not looking at it in one-size-fits-all view.

4. Did Michigan invite in the NCAA to do a thorough investigation of the athletic program, from top to bottom, without any hindrance? I don't recall.

5. I've no reason to suspect they aren't.

[Hannibal]

the huge mistake that tressel made does not validate claims of wide spread cheating

There was already lots of evidence of Tressel's cheating that predates the Tat 5. He got away with it at Youngstown State, and he got away with Maurice Clarett. He continued to get away with it up to the point where he lost plausible deniability. Does anyone honestly think that the Tat 5 is Tressel's only wrongdoing? If you get caught drunk driving, chances are, it's not the first time that you have done it. It's just the first time that you didn't get away with it. It takes a lot of experience and nerve to baldfacedly lie repeatedly, as Tressel has done with the Tat 5. Has he told the truth about this one single time? Even at his press conference where he admitted wrongdoing, he lied and said that he did it to protect a federal investigation.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Despite this "mountain of evidence" that Tressel's an incorrigible cheater, he's only been caught now, after 30 years in coaching? BEST DAMN CHEATER EVER

[geo weidl]

a solid case to be made that the players should be able to sell something that belongs to them

I think that's the point that herbstreit is trying to hit on. These players that are selling these items are only out for themselves and not the program.

given a green light to make as much money as they can off their players, but the players themselves cannot profit off their own talents.

From what I understand a university/college education costs an arm and a leg down there. Does that not count for anything? There has always been talk about paying these players, but how much are we talking about?

[geo weidl]

Justice is served. The CFB universe will be restored to normalcy.

[hack]

Jim Tressel's latest book is called Life Promises for Success: Promises from God on Achieving Your Best. I understand the tendency to be collegial, and I think there are a lot more good people who do bad things in this world or make wrong decisions on the fly than there are people who are genuinely bad people. But Tressel is not ``a good man''. He's a hypocrite who goes out of his way to sell himself as the opposite, in public and even in private conversations like with Ciciero. He's bullshitting everybody. He's a not a good man. It's that simple.

Re the lack of institutional control thing, I get that these definitions are specific and applying common sense isn't wise. Gee and Smith didn't know, therefore LOIC doesn't apply, if I understand it correctly. However what those four words mean is the very definition of what happened. OSU didn't have any control over its coach and program. (Just pointing it out, not expecting it to turn out that way...)

[Jamie H]

Tressel is a liar and a cheater with no sense of morals or ethics. All he cares about is winning football games. He showed what a compelete douchebag he was in the Robert Reynolds incident and continues to show it today. He thought he could cover his tracks on this incident and no one would ever find out, just like all the other bullshit he has swept under the rug duing his career. I doubt he ever even considered telling the NCAA. He thought he was safe in his little incubator in Columbus where everyone and everything looks out for and protects the football program at all turns. There are no "Detroit Free Press" style investigations into things in Columbus Town.

Tressel represents the segment of society that believes the ends justify all means. Part of the group that thinks following rules is for losers. Part of the group that thinks things aren't illegal if you don't get caught.

Someone above mentioned that he only seems to care a bunch about his stars. Of course he cares and protects his stars. How else is he going to win football games?

[Jeff Buchanan]

This whole argument about players not being able to share in the money that is made off of them being advanced now in light of the osu debacle is a good one but one cannot let that argument detract from the fact of this case .....

jim tressel lied to the NCAA; most employees of institutions having an affiliation with the NCAA and claiming acceptance of compliance with that body's rules usually fire those employees; failing that the NCAA will ask them why they are still employed (Show Cause Letter).

I heard this woe be it refrain from Tim Brando of CBS Sports yesterday. There's some legitimacy to it but it has absolutely nothing to do with the facts of this case and I resent that the sports press uses the irresponsible acts of coach tressel as a jumping off point for another set of arguments.

Focus ...... osu is the embodiment of evil in college sports.

[SeanB]

I agree. Other than the fact that what the players did is somewhat deplorable and shows little class in regards to respecting their program and honoring it's traditions, the crux of the issue is not archaic rules.

It's that the head coach of one of the most prestigious CFB programs in the country knowingly withheld information to keep his players eligible, then lied about it on multiple occasions, all while apparently deceiving his superiors, or at least keeping them in the dark. If that's not LOIC, I don't know what is. And how those in charge at OSU can even fathom allowing Tressel to remain football coach despite an egregious lack of judgment and ethics is beyond me.

[Jamie H]

It is not the head coach's job to decide which NCAA rules are to be followed and which ones aren't. Even if it is a stupid rule, it DOESN'T MATTER. Tressel intentionally covered up the situation and LIED to the NCAA about it, strictly to win football games. At this point, it doesn't really matter what rules violation he covered up. All that matters is that the cover up was done expressly to keep ineligible players eligible in an effort to win football games. That is a MAJOR NCAA violation, completely regardless of what was being covered up.

[hack]

Those are the rules; OSU has to play by them. Nice if they were changed to something more sensible, but until then...

[Hannibal]

You can't let players sell their memorabilia. If you do, it will get abused egregiously in a widespread manner.

[Jamie H]

Oh I agree. All of a sudden some booster would be paying 100,000 for a game jersey or some ridiculousness like that.

I'm just pointing out that even if you WANT to use the "it's a ridiculous rule" argument, it is irrelevant. The validity of the rule is irrelevant. It is the fact that Tressel knowingly and repeatedly covered up an obvious NCAA violation that is the problem. And that ignores the fact that after they were caught, he then had the gall to broker a deal for them to play in the BCS bowl game and basically embarass OSU and the NCAA even further.

[lineygoblue]

4. Did Michigan invite in the NCAA to do a thorough investigation of the athletic program, from top to bottom, without any hindrance? I don't recall.

Yes. As a matter of fact, they did it twice. During the Martin affair, and again during "practicegate". That's why Michigan's basketball program has sucked for so long. They bent over every which way to satisfy the long noses of the NCAA. And, the NCAA made an example of them.

In the "practice-gate" matter, the NCAA had unfettered access to all information in the program. Michigan threw open the door, correctly figuring that laying everything out in the open, would gain them some leniency in the end. It did.

And now, the entire matter is over, and many of those who accused the Michigan program of "cheating" have egg all over their faces.

E. Gordon Gee et al needs to take note. Fall on the sword now, and get it over with.