M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Jamie H]

Integrity was always a weak point in Columbus.

[lineygoblue]

As a Michigan fan I would think you would prefer that your players win more games in college than in the pros.

I do. But its also great to see that guys like Hart and Henne, who gave everything they had in every game with Michigan, who were unfortunately beset by injuries, have gone on and enjoyed success at the professional level. Others like Jake Long, Desmond Howard, Tom Brady and Dan Dierdorf are fine examples of Michigan Men who may not have enjoyed the "ultimate" in success at Michigan, but still turned out to be fine men that all Michigan fans can be proud of.

And 7 years later you're still moaning about the bomb-sniffing dogs...lol. This and accusations of dirty play are what you generally cling to when you're frustrated by losing.

And, once again, it comes down to "scoreboard", doesn't it? Just win, baby. It doesn't matter how you get there. It doesn't matter what you do. It doesn't matter if you win with class and dignity. All that matters is "scoreboard". Just win, baby. Win, and you make the rules. You decide what is right, and what is wrong.

And not a thing is wrong when your winning, yes?

[lineygoblue]

Integrity was always a weak point in Columbus.

Was, and is.

Nothing will ever change in Columbus.

If, and that's a big IF, .. they receive some sort of NCAA punishment for all this, they'll all blame everyone but themselves.

They never do anything wrong. After all, they are "winners".

[Rocky Bleier]

They never do anything wrong. After all, they are "winners".

Well, except for those hundreds of "minor" violations that they self-report.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I have to hand it to DSL for showing up here with the steaming pile of shit surrounding the osu program these days. Obviously, no one with an ounce of maze and blue blood is going to give any osu fan any slack.

What I would be interested in hearing from DSL is what the fan base thinks osu's administration is doing with tressel and why. Does the fan base support jt? On what basis? Do the fans and osu admin think the self-imposed sanctions are enough? Has there been any official statement from osu admin on their position vis-a-vis tressel's lying to the NCAA?

[Hannibal]

Perhaps the most amusing thing about this whole ordeal is that Maurice Clarrett has been vindicated and Jim Tressel has been proven to be the liar. Think about that for a moment. Maurice Clarett. The kid who wore his jersey backwards to a press conference so that he could show off his name. The kid who sunk so far that he resorted to armed robbery and went to prison. He was telling the truth about Jim Tressel and the Ohio State program. And Jim Tressel is below this punk on the integrity ladder.

What I would be interested in hearing from DSL is what the fan base thinks osu's administration is doing with tressel and why. Does the fan base support jt? On what basis? Do the fans and osu admin think the self-imposed sanctions are enough? Has there been any official statement from osu admin on their position vis-a-vis tressel's lying to the NCAA?

From what I have observed with most OSU fans, it hasn't really sunk in yet. For over five years, they have disregarded all criticism of Tressel's character as sour grapes. Maybe there was some truth to that. Now they suddenly have to face the fact that they have more in common with cheating SEC schools than they have with the rest of the Big Ten. They also have to accept the fact that they fell hook, line, and sinker for the "honest nice guy" act of a lying, cheating charlatan. One of the defenses that I have seen offered for Tressel is that he must be a clean guy because the Tatgate incident proves that he's an inexperienced liar. Most of them will probably never accept it. If and when they get USC-style sanctions followed by some 7-5 and 8-4 seasons, they will forever think that they got screwed. Smack talk over OSU Tatgate will fuel the rivalry for a generation. The people who are too young to remember Bo and Woody will have this.

[Pasadena Blue]

I also give DSL a lot of credit for showing up and going toe to toe with the faithful here. His arguments are mostly sound. However, he keeps focusing on how trivial the offense of selling merchandise for tattoos is .... and I would agree with him about that. That's not the issue at hand though ... as always, it's the cover-up and knowingly playing ineligibly players ... that is a HUGE HUGE sin. And what the M fans here are saying is that where there is smoke there is fire. Especially when we saw smoke before. Yes, the investigations of Clarett, other jailed Buckeyes (sorry I can't remember their names), Smith, etc. didn't turn up more .... but I think everything is cast in a new light now. Do you really believe that this is the first time Tressel played ineligible players or lied to his higher-ups? Are you really going to use the "other programs do it just as much or the same" as your primary argument?

I think what is really annoying to you ,and probably a number of other Buckfans, is that many here are invalidating the Tressel era based on these findings. I think that is hard to accept, because the reality is that Tressel probably didn't need to cheat. Carr was fading fast, and RichRod never understood what it takes to win in the Big10 --- with the natural advantages O-state has, Tressel could have dominated anyways.

That's why, I'd have to agree with Tony G that although the Sweater-gate casts a bad light on the rivalry, it doesn't eliminate the suckage (most years) that was M football over the past decade.

[hodgkal]

I think DSL needs help. I've sent an email to Talent to get on over here. When all this garbage finally hits the fan we want all those Bucknuts to wallow in it together for our entertainment.

[hack]

I don't think DSL has an argument as much as he does hope that it'll all blow over and he can continue pointing to the scoreboard, but certainly major respect due for his presence here.

I could see Hanni's diagnosis being the right one -- it is a whole lot to absorb to realize what a fraud that coach is, and the notion of replacing him (almost certainly with someone who isn't as good a coach, b/c few are) must be a terrible thing to have to contemplate.

[lineygoblue]

I think that is hard to accept, because the reality is that Tressel probably didn't need to cheat. Carr was fading fast, and RichRod never understood what it takes to win in the Big10 --- with the natural advantages O-state has, Tressel could have dominated anyways.

Exactly. He probably could have sat all five players last year, and still produced a bowl team. And, they probably would have still beaten Michigan.

And could you imagine the stature that Tressel would have gained, by being REALLY honest, and suspending all five players for the season, and STILL producing a team that beat Michigan and went to a bowl game? Talk about a job for life.

But, as we suspected all along, and most eloquently pointed out by Hanni ... the "vest" is just as dirty as Mo Clarett. Maybe even moreso.

[Tony G]

allegedly

[lineygoblue]

Stolen from another site:

A U of M fan, an Ohio State fan and a MSU fan are climbing a mountain, arguing about who loves his team more. The MSU fan insists he is the most loyal. "This is for MSU" he yells, and jumps off the mountain. Not to be outdone, the U of M fan is next to profess his love for his team. He yells, "This is for the University of Michigan...!" and pushes the Ohio State fan off the mountain.

[Pasadena Blue]

I could see Hanni's diagnosis being the right one -- it is a whole lot to absorb to realize what a fraud that coach is, and the notion of replacing him (almost certainly with someone who isn't as good a coach, b/c few are) must be a terrible thing to have to contemplate.

I am not so sure about that ... seems most Buckfans believe Urban is waiting in the wings.

Wouldn't that be something --- see the Bucks go to the spread and M go old school/pro set.

[hack]

Yeah, that would be frightening. Reason to forget the notion of karma altogether.

[Tony G]

Let's start some other rumors.

Tony Dungy - to really clean up the program

Jon Gruden maybe?

Who else to throw in?