M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[entropy]

jeff.. appreciate the respect for my team. When teams play each other or have conflict, there will always be that rub of "I don't like you"... so I do appreciate what you said.

[Pasadena Blue]

O-state is not going anywhere for the reasons WV Wolverine is saying. This an opportunity for M to close the gap, but the Bucks are not going to sink too far.

[entropy]

O-state is not going anywhere for the reasons WV Wolverine is saying. This an opportunity for M to close the gap, but the Bucks are not going to sink too far.

agree.. too much home state support. And that state produces HS football talent.

[hack]

Can't agree with what you're saying at this point, Jeff. You don't just kiss off the most storied rivalry in sports like that. The Game had better not be done being what it is. OSU needs cut out the cancer and come back on its own merit for the good of all involved.

[WM Wolverine]

The Game will have major implications on who plays IN the B10 CG. More years than not, it'll have at least 1 member participating. The Game will also give the opportunity for a team to knock the other out of the CG; e.g. if M beats OSU, OSU doesn't win their division...

Off on a tangent, I really like where the schedule makers put the M-Neb game, 2nd to last game of the season. That game will be a major rivalry and a lot of years decide who wins their division. I hope it stays the 2nd to last regular season game.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Well, I liked TO a lot despite what others say. Maybe I might have complained a little bit about using the retirement thing as a means to garner sympathy votes in '97 but why not. It worked.

Osborne was and still is old school. When he stood behind Lawrence Phillips in an onslaught from the press charging him with coddling a star player who abused his girl friend, he absolutely did the right thing, IMO. Osborne is an outstanding American with integrity; as far as I'm concerned, he, along with his predecessor Bob Devaney were as solid of a coaching dynasty as there was. Too bad Pederson had to screw TO's hand picked successor in Solich who probably would have had Neb back on top after he had some embarrassing losses continuing the legacy of elite football at Nebraska.

No matter what comes of osu at the hands of the NCAA, in my mind they have sunken to the level of SMU (?Bobby Collins), Barry Switzer's OU and Pete Carroll's USC .... worst of the worse cheaters. They can go to hell. Glad there's a team ready and waiting to replace there sorry asses in the B10.

[hack]

???

[Jeff Buchanan]

I'm not implying in any way that osu will not be a competitive football team. I agree the state of ohio will provide plenty of talent. The question is who will want to go there if the NCAA levies stiff penalties like they should. As well, if tressel leaves, again like he should, osu will make a smooth transition if they're smart, like they haven't been these days, by promoting from inside .... we'll see on that issue.

What I'm saying is that The Game has been diminished. It suffered under LC, it suffered under RR ..... it is not what it once used to be on the national scene. Yes, osu will have a say in who gets to the B10's title game but The Game is not going to determine the B10 Champ between M and osu like it always did for decades. That's gone.

Now, I'll admit, the currently lovely circumstance relating tot he tat5 and now surrounding osu's football program with stink gives me a convenient excuse to summarily erase 10 years of suck for M football at the hands of those cheaters.

But it is that cheating that probably goes a long way in explaining why osu always seemed to have more talent than M in the last ten years under tressel and explains why they seemed to have a competitive advantage with jim tressel that they never had with bruce or cooper. I think I have fairly good grounds to dismiss all of tressel's wins precisely because he is a cheater. Don't you?

[Tony G]

When he stood behind Lawrence Phillips in an onslaught from the press charging him with coddling a star player who abused his girl friend, he absolutely did the right thing

Wow, couldn't disagree with you more on that one. Now I may agree that the coach still tries to get the player to improve his life but there's no way that behavior is rewarded with staying on the team. What level of crime does it take to get thrown off a team in your opinion?

[hack]

Yes. But Tom Osborne deserves absolutely none of those kind words. He is unquestionably American. Outstanding and with integrity -- not correct. I admire your instinct to be magnanimous, but very recently you called Tressell a ``good man''. We know that he is anything but.

Re OSU, we need The Game to recover. It will, fast, provided good coaches and programs in both places.

[Rob F]

I totally disagree with the notion of a worthy osu. The B10 does not need osu anymore. Before realignment? Maybe. Now. No. They can become irrelevant for a few years and work their way back into a position where they are deserving of respect. Right now, they are shit.

F.... them.

Worthy opponents have integrity. The present osu is full of cheaters, short cut takers and players and coaches who have a much bigger gray domain than I'm comfortable with. That is an abrupt turn-around from the era of Woody, bruce and cooper. As far as I am concerned, the traditional rivalry is over and The Game is just another OOD game M has to play in and do well in.


Moreover, the new Division set up in the B10 gives us 9 big games, most notably with a quality opponent in Nebraska, with the team that plays the best, a shot at a title game, the B10 crown and all that goes with that. Playing osu? Meh. If M ends up playing osu in any kind of title game, that will raise the stakes and I might get excited but only to the point that I'll enjoy rubbing there noses in it if M wins.

We can thank terrell pryor and jim tressle, along with their cheating bosses, gee and smith, for bringing an end to what was already a tenuous tradition thanks to Rich Rodriguez and what he did to tarnish it himself. But in my view his shitfest pales in comparison to osu's when it comes to The Game.

I'm over it for now. Maybe over time, it will rekindle but I doubt it. Its pretty much dead.

While I understand your disgust with Tressel & the tat 5 in particular and osu in general right now, I have to disagree with you about the rivalry, Jeff. The rivalry is far bigger than the stained sweatervest and the tat5 and the criminal element, from Gee and Smith on down, that now rules the center of Hades. And the rivalry will thrive long after that sorry bunch has been s***-canned

I have qualified confidence that the tip of the filthy iceberg that has now been exposed will lead NCAA investigators to many many more un-self-reported sins, sins that will dwarf all the minor s*** that osu reported over the lst several years to give the nCAA the appearance that they were doing a fine job of self-policing. We all now know it to be nothing more than an elaborate smokescreen designed to throw the NCAA PooBahs off their scent/stench, but that tactic simply won't work any more.

[BlueInFlorida]

The Game foes not need to be the equivalent of watching Florida roll up on Miami or FSU now.

Uh, I think Florida didn't exactly "roll up" on FSU last year. If I'm not mistaken, the Noles put a 31-7 whuppin on the outclassed Gators.

[Tony G]

True, I forgot the lack of tebow

[entropy]

Wow, couldn't disagree with you more on that one. Now I may agree that the coach still tries to get the player to improve his life but there's no way that behavior is rewarded with staying on the team. What level of crime does it take to get thrown off a team in your opinion?

Not necessarily directed at you but what do you guysbthink LP did? I wonder because there was a criminal investigation and what was said in court was different than the media rumors. I am not defending LP or claiming he was a victim... His record after neb speaks for itself and is still an embarrassment for TO... but rather just wondering based upon comments made...

[Dr. Strangelove]

USC was given penalties possibly more severe than any school since SMU and did it cripple their program? Did it kill their recruiting? No and no. And I do not believe we will receive a punishment as severe as USC.

As to Jeff and his "this totally explains OSU out-talenting Michigan the past 10 years"...no it it doesn't. A lot of Cooper's teams had more talent than the Wolverines. They were just poorly coached. Ohio has more talent than Michigan, period. Michigan has always had to rely on more national recruiting than OSU, period. An increasingly tired Lloyd Carr and Rich Rod's attraction to 5'10 230 pound guys is why your recruiting has dropped, not because Tressel's handing bags of cash to everyone who visits.