M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Rocky Bleier]

I'm so glad Terrelle Pryor went to OSU!

[lineygoblue]

I have felt the same way about Maurice Clarett, Rocky. I am SO glad he chose to go to Columbus. They may have won a NC with him, but with each passing day, that NC is looking more tainted than ever.

[Rocky Bleier]

I don't believe they won a NC with either. Bogus PI call.

[hack]

That was a terrible call.

[hodgkal]

This whole thing reminds me of what a true gentleman and honest competitor Lloyd Carr has been. I never for a moment doubted Lloyd?s commitment to competing honorably and, even more important, his commitment to the well being of his players. I recall unprompted comments of admiration toward Coach Carr by parents of some of his players when one of our posters encountered them at an airport and quoted them. It was truly inspiring. Does anyone else remember this? It was several years ago on the old Forum board.

Anyway, Coach Carr had his priorities straight. He wanted to win as badly as anyone but he would not sacrifice his integrity in the process.

I?ve never given the Tressel situation that much thought over the years (like the Clarett saga) but the documentation of slimy doings in that program now emerging are pretty incriminating. And I don?t doubt it happens in many, maybe most, places. The pressures are just too great. But not all leaders of programs succumb to it.

I don?t have a good feel for how Rich Rodriguez dealt with these temptations. People like Rosenberg assumed he was guilty until proved innocent. If there was a widespread vendetta against our FB program the motivations escape me. At least as they may have applied to the Lloyd Carr era. And somehow I don?t think Bo ever stooped to these measures either.

[Mackenzie]

Regarding JT's 2 game suspension.... Does anyone know if these are "game day only" suspensions much like Bruce Pearl's at Tennessee or are they in fact 2 week suspensions? Not saying the 2 games are enough, just asking.

[Jeff Buchanan]

At risk of getting on my high horse here (not too worried as I am among fans of equal mindset) .....

There are two people, one in particular, associated with Michigan football that have set the bar for the rest of CFB in acting honestly in recruiting and playing fairly and within the rules midst decades of bad characters outside CFB programs and dishonest coaches and ADs inside of it.

I think Hack is right, M is not without its bad apples and mistakes and I have no doubt there are M players in the past that have gotten paid by boosters, gotten inappropriate benefits and so forth. But I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Bo Schembechler and Lloyd Carr along with their bosses - Canham through Brandon - never did anything approaching the dishonest sleeze that has been exposed at Auburn, USC and now osu. Tip of th iceberg, IMO.

Lloyd Carr, as much as I dinged him in his final years, as much as I hated his brand of football, was a beacon of honesty and integrity in a landscape of corruption in CFB. If I've changed in any way in the last 24 hours and because of the startling revelations about jim tressel and osu, its recognizing the strength and courage of this man in leading Michigan football in a manner that all of us can be proud.

[Hannibal]

Feel free to get on your high horse. You've earned the right. We all have.

[Rob F]

"Lloyd Carr, as much as I dinged him in his final years, as much as I hated his brand of football, was a beacon of honesty and integrity in a landscape of corruption in CFB. If I've changed in any way in the last 24 hours and because of the startling revelations about jim tressel and osu, its recognizing the strength and courage of this man in leading Michigan football in a manner that all of us can be proud."

... eggzacklee why I got so defensive of Lloyd when the rumours have been floated and refloated about Carr supposedly actively undermining RR

[hack]

Lloyd had some very firm ideas about conduct and they were admirable, but he's conducted himself below that standard in pursuit of those ideals. So free pass from me. The ends don't justify the means on the field or off, which he doesn't seem to get, or perhaps his principles apply differently to himself than others in some cases. I'm glad we had him and I'd like to just go about respecting his legacy and being thankful for a great run and leaving it at that, but he's making it very hard.

That said, the smile on his face should be the biggest today. He's earned that much.

[*JD*]

with schools like Tattoo U (I'm working hard for it, JD), ?

I really will look into what I can do about making T-Shirts since the game is in A2 this year.

Really, to photoshop the design onto the Vest's face would be all that's needed. The record album already is close to the school colors. Maybe Mick knew something about Saint Jim 30 years ago?

[hack]

Make it happen -- it's so, so good.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Hack ..... Re Carr. I think I know where you are coming from. We will leave it alone but I have one question for you.

Do you think Harry Truman agonized over sending the Enola Gay on its fateful mission in 1945?

Probably.

In both cases, these men knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were doing the right thing. Perhaps an overly dramatic comparison but it works in demonstrating that men of principle are frequently troubled by such conundrums.

[hack]

I know you do, Jeff, but I don't see the comparison. Undermining your successor because you use different schemes isn't like deciding how exactly thousands should die. If anything RR's proven himself as principled as Lloyd would want the UM coach to be, and perhaps more, given that he endured the unfair sabotaging in a most gentlemanly way.

[Jamie H]

OSU has some things they should be concerned about. Dez Bryant was suspended a year for lying to the NCAA. Nobody felt he did anything wrong, but he lied. It would be tough for the NCAA to say a white coach has different rules than a black player. I'm sure the pokes are really watching this one.

Um, you DO know this is the NCAA you are talking about right? Hypocricy is their middle name. I mean, Bryant is suspended a year for lying to an NCAA investigator even though he didn't do anything wrong, yet Cam Newton is allowed to play after his father solicited hundreds of thousands for his services.

They have shown no consistency in the past or even any kind of desire to seem consistent. So who knows what hill happen here?