M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Sorry, but you're wrong. We need to hammer away at this. Negative recruiting works and I don't want to see us bring a knife to this gun fight anymore. When Rodriguez's job wasn't secure, everyone else was out there doing it to us. There's nothing wrong with being negative when you are telling the truth.

Frankly, I don't think M recruiters need to say a thing. This is getting a ton of negative press and NOTHING osu officials can say is going to ameliorate it. Local kids are going to get all the information they need and it isn't going to be good for osu. I don't think it changes the calculus nationally but it isn't going to help osu.

The reality is that I suspect Brandon has already made it clear to all the staff (or Hoke has done it on his own) .... no negative recruiting. Do I disagree with you in principle, Hanni? No, you are spot on but consider the M culture.

[hack]

Well who knows, really, but I'm with Hannibal. Of course there's a classy and an unclassy way to do that, and euphemisms that get the point across will surely do the trick with kids and their parents as well as providing the university the plausible deniability it might want to fool itself and others.

[Jamie H]

The bottom line for OhNo has always been winning. They can talk about "winning in the classroom", and put up all the academic achievements they want. The bottom line is, win. Just like the old Oakland Raiders under John Madden, whose motto was, "Just win, baby". Walk that tightrope with the rules. It doesn't matter if you fall off a couple times. Just make excuses, and pick up where you left off.

That became obvious very early in the Tressel reign with the whole handling of the Reynolds incident. Here's a kid that probably should have been kicked out of Div-1 football permanently or at the minimum given a harsh punishment and Tressel wasn't even going to suspend him until the Big Ten stepped in and made him. Anything you needed to know about Tressel's character (or complete lack of it) you found out in that moment. Winning is all that is important to him.

As for recruiting, all you have to do is tell the parents that you don't have to worry about any of that crap going on at Michigan. Don't sell the kids on it--they don't care about programs being clean. But parents (at least good ones) understand the value of having a program that is run the right way.

[Hannibal]

I think that a lot of the parents and kids don't care. Plus, the OSU recruiters will pull a "Kiffin" and try to convince the kids that nothing will come of it but a slap on the wrist.

[Mackenzie]

[QUOTE=
As for recruiting, all you have to do is tell the parents that you don't have to worry about any of that crap going on at Michigan. Don't sell the kids on it--they don't care about programs being clean. But parents (at least good ones) understand the value of having a program that is run the right way.[/QUOTE]

I guessing you mean telling recruits, and parents about that kind of crap not happening in the future as the past speaks for itself.


Still, I saw this posted at mgoblog: "You can't throw a rock on eBay without hitting an auction for the gold pants charms handed out after Michigan victories from as recently as 2009?which means there's a fair chance the players in question are still on the team."


Now, not saying this is true or not. Also, have no idea with respect to future implications if any. But, it could be that Tattoogate may be a case of the "pot calling the kettle black" as far as potential NCAA violations.

I guess things like this are why I think M's response should be a case of "let sleeping dogs lie" or letting others (NCAA) do the dirty work.

[Tony G]

On the recruiting side, stay positive unless somehow "that other place" loses TV games or bowls. Then it is a case of mentioning exposure. If you really want to bring in "Michigan Men", stay classy. If not, I'm sure RR and the integrity circus would be glad to come back. The press will do an excellent job of getting the negative out for you. The players and parents attracted to that in spite of what's going on are not what you want in A2 anyways.

[Pasadena Blue]

I do believe everything Clarett said was true, and the Vest is a two-faced lying sack of the smelly stuff ...but ultimately, it is just a belief.

The only thing we actually have proof of so far is this memorabilia-for-tatoos scheme and its cover-up.

What's most disturbing is that Tressel demanded that the 5 players come back for their senior seasons and accept the punishment, when in fact he knew all along and was holding back the info --- this is what is most reprehensible. Obviously, when he found out he hoped things would not come to light and this would all blow over with no violations to O-state or its players.

All this is other stuff: saying on one hand "I was scared" and on the other hand "I didn't give it much thought with respect to the NCAA thing" is just BS .... which is it? If you were "scared" wouldn't you give it more thought?

The best possible scenario for M is that the NCAA move slowly with periodic hints/leaks that serious punishment could be coming and the media continuing to take shots at the 'Vest for his credibility/honesty. M coaches can stay classy and not "negatively" recruit ... let the media and other competitors do that for us.

The key for M to get back to the top is establishing a talent advantage over O-state and we need whatever edge we can get to turn the recruiting tide to our advantage. Vacating wins for using players you knew to be ineligible doesn't help M at all.

[Jamie H]

What's most disturbing is that Tressel demanded that the 5 players come back for their senior seasons and accept the punishment, when in fact he knew all along and was holding back the info --- this is what is most reprehensible. Obviously, when he found out he hoped things would not come to light and this would all blow over with no violations to O-state or its players.

Exactly. He "played" everyone involved--the NCAA, the Big Ten, maybe even his own AD, EVERYONE for fools. He better hope the NCAA buys his bullshit "federal investigation" excuse because the NCAA doesn't tend to look kindly upon people who outright lie to them during their investigations.

[*JD*]

ink = tattoo?

Let's not forget this:

According to a Columbus Division of Police report, the burglary occurred sometime between Nov. 22 at 6 p.m. and Nov. 23 at 8 p.m.
Hawk, Mangold, and a third roommate, Jonathan Thomas, told police that their apartment in the 100 block of West Norwich Avenue was broken into and about $3,000 in cash, $1,425 in movies, two laptop computers, a $500 Gucci watch, two Microsoft X-Box games valued at $500, a Sony Playstation game valued at $250 were taken.
Police were not told about the crime until Nov. 28, according to their report.

Where's the article for this? I never heard about that but that sound pretty dirty, especially the 3K in cash.

Also, yes ink=tattoo.

[Pasadena Blue]

this is a good summary of "Sweatergate"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/stewart_mandel/03/08/ohio.state.jim.tressel.sanctions/index.html?eref=sihp

[Hannibal]

OSU student paper: "Give Tressel the Boot"

http://www.thelantern.com/sports/give-tressel-the-boot-1.2083500

The NCAA shouldn't suspend Jim Tressel for more than two games. It shouldn't fine him more than $250,000 dollars. It shouldn't bar him from spring practice and summer workouts.

After it finishes its investigation, the NCAA should recommend Jim Tressel's termination as head football coach at The Ohio State University.

This incident is further proof that college athletics is spinning out of control, and a message needs to be sent to university presidents and athletic directors who let rule-breaking coaches keep their jobs because they win games and sell tickets.
And that's exactly why Tressel, who said he never considered resigning, didn't tell the athletic department that he had received an e-mail from an attorney indicating OSU football players were selling memorabilia to Edward Rife. Rife, the owner of Fine Line Ink tattoo parlor, is one of the focal points of a federal drug investigation.

Tressel's contract states that he is bound to report any possible violation immediately. He didn't.

When Regular Joe with a normal job breaches his contract, he gets the boot. So should The Vest.

"I am sorry and disappointed this happened," Tressel said. "At the time the situation occurred, I thought I was doing the right thing."

Doing the right thing? Surely a deeply religious man with a newly released book titled "Life Promises for Success: Promises from God on Achieving Your Best" knows the difference between right and wrong.

Or does he?

Maurice Clarett and Troy Smith, the highest-profile players of the Tressel era other than current Buckeye quarterback Terrelle Pryor, were both suspended for accepting improper benefits. Tressel also had a player do the same thing at Youngstown State.
It's clear that Tressel, also author of "The Winner's Manual," wants to win at all cost. The mantra is shared by athletic director Gene Smith and university President E. Gordon Gee, who make up the university's "Big Three."

When asked whether he considered firing Tressel, Gee gave a clear indication of who actually runs the university.

"No, are you kidding?" Gee said with a laugh. "Let me be very clear: I'm just hoping the coach doesn't dismiss me."

I rest my case.

At this point OSU has given Tressel a slap on the wrist. The NCAA should break his arm.

[hack]

Life Promises for Success: Promises from God on Achieving Your Best

How does he look at himself in the mirror every morning?

[Jeff Buchanan]

This is going to take months ........ manna from heaven. osu is absolutely screwed for a couple of years no matter what happens with he NCAA. It would be nice if they did act swiftly though.

First the NCAA will conduct an investigation. I think in this case they will do so whether they are invited in by osu or not. Its too big a deal to ignore. This will take 3-6 months.

Then they will present osu with their findings and osu will have an opportunity to prepare a response and deliver it to the infractions committee ..... another 4 -6 months.

Then the NCAA will deliberate and hand down its findings/penalties in 3-6 months. Best guess shortest time frame is a year, longest 2.

OTH, given the apparent egregiousness of tressel's conduct - appears that he lied to NCAA investigators .... or barring actual testimony provided by tressel on this matter to the NCAA or its officials in its report, he lied to AD Smith as part of an internal investigation who then self reported erroneous information to the NCAA - some dong punches could be issued by the NCAA right away; declaring osu members of the Tattoo club ineligible to play CFB at all and forcing Gee to fire tressel sounds about right to me.

As a long standing hater of everything about osu, I cannot express my elation over this stunning turn of events. As Michigan emerges form the ashes of the Rodriguez disaster, licking its wounds from all the snickering from osu fans in the last seven years, osu now finds itself on the brink of a disaster of their own foolish and arrogant making.

[Jamie H]

Life Promises for Success: Promises from God on Achieving Your Best

How does he look at himself in the mirror every morning?

Massive hypocrits really don't care. I'm sure for him, the ends (winning football games and cashing his huge checks) justify the means.

[Rob F]

With this "major earthquake" and aftershocks occurring in and around Columbus, the Big Ten landscape sure has changed in the last couple of days, hasn't it!?

I share your joy, Jeff, as I watch this unfold. The senator is as slimy as any politician, and the more he tries to squirm out of the mess he himself tried in vain to hide, the more the "practicegate" under RR at U of M fades into the distance in CFB's rearview mirror.