M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[CGVT]

There is a Lebowski quote for everything.

That is a fact

[SeattleLionsFan]

[iam416]

So, DV folks aren't allowed to work? That's fantastic. Even better if they're married and he's the sole source of income. That will really teach everyone.

[UMStan White]

Watched the interview.Devastating condemnation of ..... Zack Smith. Hell Tressell's lying was much more serious and he was given a Hero's Welcome on his return. (Pres of a University publicly saying he hopes the coach doesn't fire him!) OSU has much more to worry about with the wrestling coach scandal. (Ask MSU and PSU)

Meyer is brought off leave in time for fall camp and receives a one game suspension. (which seems fair in that all he is accused of is lying about what he knew and when he knew) As Macbeth said this is "of sound and fury signifying nothing."

OSU's biggest fear has to be not how it will weather this storm but that Oscar Meyer says "I don't need this shit" and resigns to go elsewhere

[iam416]

We really need to put together the complete picture and I'm sure there are things we're not aware of yet that complete the story. I see three options:

(1) UFM was genuinely unaware. This could be because (1) Shelley never told UFM; or (2) Shelley spoke in vague terms. I find the former hard to believe. Now, there is a question as to WHAT she told him. Was it "ZS is physical again and CS is scared" or "The Smiths are having issues, can you talk to Zach?" -- or something in between. What she actually relayed to UFM matters a great deal and it's certainly plausible she was less specific than CS was in her text messages.

(2) UFM was aware, but pushed alternative counseling at the request of BOTH CS/ZS. It's clear that CS was afraid that ZS would lose his job if she went to UFM directly. She had the divorce proceedings sealed exactly for that reason -- according to her. Her own parents pushed this exact agenda. In her texts with Shelley, SM notes that the "job isn't worth it" -- I'd like to see the entire exchange, but that again suggests that everyone knows that ZS is in deep crap if UFM finds out. ZS even told his lawyers that he didn't want UFM to know anything about. So eventually word gets back to UFM -- probably in the softer form highlighted in (1) -- and Shelley, perhaps, tells him that CS does not want ZS to lose his job. UFM intervenes -- puts ZS in a short leash salary-wise, pushes him into counseling and hopes for the best. From the end of 2015 to the 2018 I think the there are no physical incidents. Then in 2018, we have ZS's downfall and he's out.

(3) UFM absolutely knew and didn't really care (for whatever reason). I find this the hardest to believe. First, when he learned about it in Florida he took the proper steps. Second, everyone around the situation was scared to death that ZS would lose his job if UFM found out. Did they all misread UFM that badly? Third, Earle Bruce grandson or not, I have a hard time seeing UFM going down for DV for anyone.

My personal opinion is that Shelley did tell UFM, but she knew what would happen if she didn't soft pedal it a bit and push for some sort of intervention from UFM/OSU. I think UFM probably did act in some way to address what he perceived the situation to be.

That's how I'm trying to make sense of the story.

[iam416]

Meyer is brought off leave in time for fall camp and receives a one game suspension. (which seems fair in that all he is accused of is lying about what he knew and when he knew) As Macbeth said this is "of sound and fury signifying nothing."

OSU's biggest fear has to be not how it will weather this storm but that Oscar Meyer says "I don't need this shit" and resigns to go elsewhere

I think you're wrong, right, wrong. He's going to get fired. This is 2018. There will be no half measures. Rational reactions are not in vogue. I do, however, agree with the Macbeth analogy. And, finally, there is no fucking way UFM wants to go out like this.

Ohio State is shamelessly about the brand and will sacrifice anyone...even UFM...to avoid a PR hit of any size. I can say, with some certainty, that the phrase "no one is bigger than the institution" is driving this.

[iam416]

I'll also make one comment on Buchanan's journalism point. I'm obviously not a journalist, so I'll defer, but it seems to me that if you're doing a reporting story -- not a hit piece -- you want to talk to as many people as you reasonably can. You'd want to talk to the principals on both sides as well as a sufficient number of corroborating folks to put together the complete story. It's crystal clear McMurphy talked to one person. Again, I'm no journalist, but that strikes me as very much wanting to present a one-sided story as opposed to what I think of as objective reporting.

Maybe he tried to interview UFM/Shelley and others. I rather doubt it, though.

[Jeff Buchanan]

talent, I like your 80/20 take. Despite the #gentryprog and the Canuck with their panties in a wad about me blaming the press for this, I'm totally in the camp of the DONT FIRE URBAN crowd. Well maybe the segment in the ....... yet camp. Like others here I want ufm fired after loosing 12 consecutive games to JH not beause of Harvey Wenstein. What a ripoff if M has to go into columbus with some lame duck buckeye coach ...... well, M would look pretty silly if they lost with one of those patented, "for the Gipper" wins posted by those fuckers

Anyway, I thoroughly read McMurphy's hit piece. Anyone interested in understanding what's going on should read it (link below). It is a matter of fact that Zach Smith was arrested for aggravated assault and battery against a pregnant woman in 2009 while he was on meyer's staff at UF. Nothing came of it and of course there's an entirely believable but factually unsubstantiated story of why UF never investigated the situation presented by McMurphy as factual. It's not as far as I can tell.

https://www.facebook.com/TheBrettMcMurphy/posts/2042037522486968

A court issued a restraining order against Smith on July 20th and he was subsequently fired by osu. osu is investigating the situation. meyer is on paid administrative leave. Those are the facts, Beyond that we have a is lot of he said, she said, revelations of text exchanges potentially damaging to the university and meyer none of which has been subjected to any kind of due process proceedings to verify it's authenticity as it might apply to violations of Title IX provisions on reporting sexual violence or violations of meyer's contract with osu.

When you read McMurphy's piece, at face, Smith is a wife beater, he's been one for a long time, he should have been fired when he was on UF's staff in 2009 when he was arrested but never charged. meyer should never have hired him at osu but he did like a lot of people do for guys they know who've been troubled in the past but are trying to work there way back. There's more good in that sort of approach than bad but there are risks, 10x or more the risks of 2011 in 2018. Are there any reports in the McMurphy piece about steps Smith might have taken since 2009 to correct his violent behavior? No. I don't think there is any question that McMurphy is laying the ground work for the argument that meyer should be tried, convicted and fired becasue of his investigation and findings. I can only hope McMurphys did something to vett his claims but .... Facebook? Doubtful.

There are absolutely no facts, in my review of McMurphy's piece, that support allegations that meyer violated the provisions of Title IX or his contract. As far as I'm concerned, the allegations remain just that until osu completes an ongoing investigation whose outcome will determine urban's fate. Until such time, my advise is for individuals with interest in this situation to STFU and refrain from speculating outcomes. Unfortunately, due process investigations such as osu is conducting are not protected by laws that do protect court proceedings even though, in the case of high profile people like meyer, ought to be. That way Smith could legally enforce a gag order. He can't.

Will the media behave responsibly in this matter and STFU until a report of the investigation is released by Gene Smith? Nope ....... and that' s the kind of problem I spoke of up thread. Whether, according to Hack, it's a hot take or not on my part, IMO, its a valid criticism of the current state of the media and the impact of the negative side of the #metoo movement. I should make it clear, I'm certainly not condoning domestic violence. What I demand though is fairness in the pursuit of justice. The media circus that will surround meyer and osu is going to make that hard. I'm hoping AD Smith conducts himself like Special Council Mueller. That would be refreshing.

[hack]

Jeff, you're commenting from a position of ignorance about how media work, and what media is.

Talent, I can't think of many other times in which such news was disseminated in quite this way. If any at all. One guy posting on facebook isn't ``the media'', even if he had once formally been part of a news org. My comments are limited to actual news organizations. Most of which reported the facts, which is what they are supposed to do. Some have published editorials on the editorial page, which is another thing they are supposed to do. As for the rest of the punditry that people lump in with the term ``media'' without considering whether they have anything in common at all, well, life isn't any more fair to reporters than it is to Urban Meyer or Courtney Smith. Comment is free and facts are sacred and all that, and the distinction is obvious, but many people aren't going to take the time to appreciate nuance in any argument, be it about what Meyer did or didn't do or about what reporters and pundits and blowhards have in common if anything.

The interesting thing to me, if Meyer goes down -- and I'm looking increasingly wrong about my gut sense though still I'll believe it when I see it -- is whether Izzo faces another flare-up at MSU. That's an absolute direct apples-to-apples comparison, I think.

[iam416]

Hack:

Point taken re "media" definition. Just saying this particular piece doesn't strike me as objective reporting. And, unfortunately, the broader "sports media" is now running with it full on.

Izzo is fine. They weathered the storm. The more relevant question would be whether the Colorado HC survives a reexamination of his actions. Both will survive, though. OSU is remarkably quick to cut bait.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Isn't it about time for Urbs to fake an illness?

[hack]

Of course it's not objective. No question about that. I'm sure in the future there will be panel discussions at journo-con and something in the Columbia Journalism Review, etc. etc. It's worth it for the profession to examine this incident, even if I'm incorrect and it's not the first time something so big has been shared in precisely that way.

But the broader sports media can't ignore it once it's out there, and so far there's not much to complain about. The top hits on Google News are a pretty good indication, as Google gives you the things most-clicked-on first. The headlines are almost exclusively of the "OSU places coach on leave amid investigation" sort, or "Report alleges Meyer knew about incident". You have Cowherd and Whitlock, but the ratio of reported facts to commentary is healthy.

Understanding the difference between the two kinds of coverage is just basic media literacy. Many people don't have it but that doesn't stop them from ranting on and on.

I don't know about Izzo and MSU. Nobody needs to be reminded that SJWs are out there looking for scalps. MSU's SJWs are going to feel pretty shitty about this. One more incident could tip it. No reason to assume we know about all of them. It's just very interesting to see how the standards are applied in different places. Then again my instinct here has been pretty wrong, so that's a factor. For the record, I'd like Izzo to be around for a while. It's fun beating his team and good fuel for ours when he gets all the attention anyways.

[iam416]

I don't think there's enough oxygen left in E. Lansing to do much more.

I understand the actual sports "media" has to report on it, but we're still at a place where the underlying work creates a frenzy. For better or worse.

[hack]

Also, if this actually does happen, I'll need The Al Franken of College Football's head photoshopped into this picture within 15 minutes or the terrorists have already won.

[hack]

I don't think there's enough oxygen left in E. Lansing to do much more.

I understand the actual sports "media" has to report on it, but we're still at a place where the underlying work creates a frenzy. For better or worse.

Definitely. Regardless of the facts in this case, ``reporters" sharing ``investigations" on facebook is going to result in plenty of actual real witch hunts if it become a regular thing.

But we're also pretty generous with those terms lately. So much gets labeled investigative journalism these days. I get to call myself an investigative reporter nowadays even though I do something clearly different. People do single-source stories in real media and call them deep dives.