M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[iam416]

The recruiting difference for 2016 and 2017 was small enough to be manageable for Harbaugh.

2016 was relatively close. 2017 was not particularly close. If you took the top 13 kids from the M/OSU 2017 classes, I think 11 of them are OSU kids. If 2017 is the standard difference in recruiting b/t the two schools, then M is going to considerably under-talented relative to OSU.

Now, 2017 is only one year, so it's easy enough to work around. The problem is that the difference in 2018 could be even greater. In fact, I'd be shocked if it wasn't significantly greater.

So, if you sit down and put together a starting lineup from M's 2017 and 2018 (as currently constituted + reasonable projections) classes and OSU's 2017-18 classes, the difference apparent.

[AlabamAlum]

Didn't stop Clemson from beating Alabama last year, or Mississippi from beating Alabama regularly.

And I'll say the recruiting difference is small. M has a lot received of top notch recruits the last 2 years.

Saban is probably past his peak, and Meyer is flat out good.

1. Clemson won. It was a close game and could've gone either way.

2. Ole Miss beats Alabama "regularly"? Saban is 8-2 vs Ole Miss, or .800. Both of their wins were fluky, but they won, so I won't even go into the particulars. But regularly? I believe they have won 9 or 10 games against us in our entire history. Without looking it up, I am fairly sure Ole Miss has only beaten Bama 5 times since Jimmy Carter was in office. So, again, "reguarly"?

3. Past his peak? What on earth leads you to that conclusion? Saban is at the top of his game. He has made the playoffs every year they have existed and won 4 of the last 8 national championships - hell, 6 months ago was a few seconds from making that 5 of the last 8 NCs. The first hint that a coach is losing is it is that recuiting starts to suffer (See Bowden, Paterno, Stallings, etc, etc). I am pretty certain that no reasonable person can come to this conclusion with Saban. On the field performance, hunger, and recruiting are top level.

[Hannibal]

The first indication is a weird 7-5 season that everyone assumes is a one-time thing. Or even before that, a bunch of victories where it looks like the team is subsisting most off of recruiting. You can usually see cracks in the foundation. I have yet to see that out of Saban.

[iam416]

Ok, just for the hell of it I've put together starting lineups for both OSU and M using only 2017 and 2018 commits. For 2018, I've also included kids that I think are likely to end up with that school (bold/italics). I don't know M's classes overly well, so I was more guessing on a couple spots there -- 2nd interior OL; Nickel; 2nd safety. I was way more comfortable projecting 2018 commits for OSU (4) than M (2). So feel free to correct M's side of the ledger.

Finally, I've included a Nickel back as I think that's a key position these days, and for the RB/APB/HB I tried to fit in the next best athlete. So, I think Gill is the HB and I went with Collins as the 3rd WR type. I omitted the FB b/c that wouldn't really help with M's overall averages.

So, here are the starting lineups based solely on recruiting ranks (247 Composite National Overall, 247 Composite Raw Score):

QB: E. Jones (31, 0.981) – McCaffery (123, 0.942)
RB: Snead (82, 0.957) – Samuels (275, 0.899)
RB/HB: Gill (34, 0.976) – Collins (136, 0.935)
WR: Grimes (39, 0.975) – DPJ (12, 0.990)
WR: Babb (49, 0.973) – Black (122, 0.941)
TE: Ruckert (75, 0.961) – Muhammad (101, 0.952)
OT: Wray (77, 0.959) – Filiaga (113, 0.943)
OG: Myers (54, 0.971) – Ekiyor (108, 0.949)
C: W. Davis (24, 0.983) – Ruiz (44, 0.974)
OG: M. Jones (54, 0.967) – J. Hall (312, 0.892)
OT: J. Carman (12, 0.994) – Hayes (285, 0.900)

DE: Young (8, 0.993) – Viliain (56, 0.972)
DT: Garrett (70, 0.961) – Solomon (25, 0.985)
DT: Vincent (11, 0.994) – Friday (62, 0.963)
DE: Cox (22, 0.986) – Jeter (285, 0.899)
LB: Browning (11, 0.992) – Singleton (80, 0.960)
LB: T. Mitchell (38, 0. 977) – Ross (214, 0.915)
LB: B. White (126, 0.937) – Anthony (107, 0.950)
CB: Okudah (7, 0.994) – Sims (127, 0.940)
CB: S. Wade (17, 0.987) – Thomas (94, 0.951)
S: I. Pryor (59, 0.967) – JKP (263, 0.900)
S: Woodbey (30, 0.981) – Woods (378, 0.884)
Nickel: A. Cook (8, 0.995) – Gemon Green (340, 0.889)

For these lineups the averages (National Rank, Raw Score):
Ohio State: 40.30, 0.9766
M: 159.22 0.9359

[iam416]

I'm fairly certain in a 1 off comparison there's not much to get worked up over in the difference between 40 and 159 or 0.9766 and 0.9359. However, over a 23-person starting team? -- yeah, that's significant.

That's an OSU lineup with 1 kid outside the top 82. One. And kids like Dobbins, Martell, Proctor and Sheffield don't even make it.

That's almost The Nickian in Roster Talent.

[iam416]

You can shit on The Nick at your peril. However, when you wake up one morning staring at The Nick standing over you and holding your still-beating heart don't act surprised.

Yeah, Alabama is really on a slide.

[AlabamAlum]

The dynasty is over.

[iam416]

The Nick's dynasty or HARBAUGH!!!'s dynasty? The latter seems to be unstoppably chugging along winning national titles at a rate M typically does. I see no end in sight!

[AlabamAlum]

A lot of upside with Harbaugh. In fact, this year, I think he breaks the chain and finishes higher than 3rd in the East Division.

UP UP UP!

[iam416]

Heh @ "UP UP UP!" -- classic

[AlabamAlum]

Yes, I still miss Sparticus.

I wonder if those evil Vietnamese bookies ever paid him his winnings...

[Detroit Dan]

I'll admit that my observations on Saban are wishful thinking. Still, Alabama's far enough away that it doesn't make too much difference to Michigan.

Obviously the Buckeyes have jumped the shark, with Talent taking the time to post 2 deeps based on 2 recruiting years only. There's only one way for things to go from here -- BIG TIME DISAPPOINTMENT for the team from the middle of nowhere. (My Dad graduated from OSU back when it was still cool.)

[THE_WIZARD_]

HARBAUGH!!!

[Detroit Dan]

HARBAUGH!!! is actually a very good coach, and seems to be a good person too, which is more important. Saban is wooden. Meyer is better, but still relatively one dimensional. Give me Harbaugh any day of the week!

[AlabamAlum]

Jesus. I mean you're gonna have a take one day that is ....well, not wrong. Saban is not wooden. He is fairly animated on the sideline and in practice. I'm not sure you have ever watched Bama play.

Anyway. Is JH more affable with the media? Okay.