M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[edindetroit]

Good to have you back AA...

No, its not!

[THE_WIZARD_]

Have a heart man...or at least fake it...

[Detroit Dan]

You've mentioned Clemson on several occasions as a way that "(passing) offense can overcome talent" or something like. But Watson was a runner and Clemson's offense was very much spready.

True. Watson's running no doubt got them to the championship game. But it was his passing that won it. Watson threw 56 times for 420 yards, compared to Hurts who threw 31 times for 131 yards. Alabama's talent advantage overall was overcome by Clemson's superior passing game. Clemson outscored 21-7 in the 4th quarter. Watson threw 5 straight passes to end the 3rd quarter on the Alabama 8 yard line. Alabama couldn't keep up in the 4th.

Anyway, that was a great game by Clemson.

I agree that running QBs present a tremendous advantage. The year OSU won it all with their 3rd string QB proves that injuries can be overcome, although the following year showed the perils of having a couple of big name QBs with experience on the roster at the same time (QB controversy).

Michigan's biggest mistake last year was not having O'Korn or someone ready to come in when Speight was injured at Iowa. You can't expect to win without a passing game. O'Korn didn't get enough reps in garbage time to stay sharp. We were lucky in 2015 that we didn't lose when Ruddock got knocked out against Minnesota.

So that is my one criticism of Harbaugh. He's a great QB coach, but hasn't had a 2nd stringer ready to go.

[Jeff Buchanan]

The only way you're going to do that, Dan, is rotate your QBs during pracitces and games so they get close to equal reps in practice and life. The reason for that are the many restrictions on practice time in college ball. Not going to happen.

Coaches are pretty much forced to name one guy and go with him for the season, not the least of which is how that guy works with the OL, RBs and all the receivers. I don't see any of the elite programs doing the two QB thing. I don't recall Bo or Lloyd (he did it becasue he was forced to in the Henson-Brady time) having a second guy ready to go.

And I will never, ever forget the Rich Rodriguez, Al Borges fiasco when Denard went down. So, I'd not be so quick to fault JH because he, "hasn't had a 2nd stringer ready to go."

[iam416]

True. Watson's running no doubt got them to the championship game. But it was his passing that won it. Watson threw 56 times for 420 yards, compared to Hurts who threw 31 times for 131 yards. Alabama's talent advantage overall was overcome by Clemson's superior passing game. Clemson outscored 21-7 in the 4th quarter. Watson threw 5 straight passes to end the 3rd quarter on the Alabama 8 yard line. Alabama couldn't keep up in the 4th.

All that is true, but I don't think you can separate Watson's running game from his passing game. His threat to run helps his passing game considerably. So, even if he's throwing that run threat is creating better opportunities.

As for M and it's backup QB situation, I'd love to think that HARBAUGH!!!! isn't perfect, but I think the better explanation is that your backups were trash. Personally, I never got the "O'Korn Love" M fans had. He was beaten out at Houston. That's not a savior. So, meh.

I think with the current lineup of QBs that won't happen. If it does, then it's definitely on HARBAUGH!!!! But, I just don't see it. O'Korn just isn't good. I think Peters is probably pretty able and McCaffery will be. But, if they're not, then it's time to point the finger.

[WM Wolverine]

We went into the summer expecting Wilton Speight to hardly be a serious candidate for playing time, so everyone saw O'Korn as the only decent option at QB as Shane Morris had pretty much established his inability. It was out of hope that we saw O'Korn as the answer as no one else seemed to have the talent level to lead us to much...

Wilton Speight exceed most everyones expectations yet still wasn't good enough. He was awful vs Iowa, even considering the offensive line's inability to keep pressure from getting to him very quickly. Yet we were 1-play from winning that game thanks to M's outstanding defense.

That was the game we needed Speight to just be a lil' bit better, how does the B1G & CFP shape up if M wins that game? PSU, OSU & M are atop a 3-way tie of the B1G, we are forced to use a tiebreaker to see who represents the B1G East.

[iam416]

OSU goes. It would have pretty straightforward.

[WM Wolverine]

OSU wins the East, beats Wisconsin but M should've been right there with Washington to play Bama.

[iam416]

True.

[Detroit Dan]

I agree with Talent that O'Korn has been bad in what we've seen of him in game time. However, Harbaugh didn't play O'Korn very much in the blowouts. The only thing I can think of is that Harbaugh was afraid of starting a QB controversy. Otherwise, he should have given O'Korn more reps and more meaningful reps in the blowouts so that we won't be forced to go with Speight when he was injured and couldn't pass, for God's sake!

And, Jeff, I'm not asking for equality of reps or a 2 QB system. Just give the second guy more work so you're not afraid to put him in when the season is on the line as it was last year in Iowa City.

And, yes, the QB backup situation was a disaster in the Hoke/Denard Robinson days, so this is nothing new for us M fans. But as Talent says, it may just be that we didn't have a decent backup last year. To be fair, Speight did pull out the MN game in 2015.

[Detroit Dan]

but I don't think you can separate Watson's running game from his passing game. His threat to run helps his passing game considerably. So, even if he's throwing that run threat is creating better opportunities.

Absolutely. But Tom Brady isn't a big threat to run, and his team generally prevails, which leads us back to the whole pro v college issue. Anyway, evidence in college definitely favors running QBs at this point, and Harbaugh did go after Tate Martell's backup (Dorian Thompson Robinson) who is, like Martell, a running QB. And I'll never forget Vince Young at Texas (shudder).

I'm not a big pro football fan, but Speight drew comparisons with Ben Roethlisberger. He isn't a runner, but was masterful at avoiding the sack, buying time, and then throwing downfield successfully. He gets a lot of blame for the Buckeye interceptions, but the Buckeyes were probably a lot better than anything he'd seen live to that point, not to mention being in Columbus. He was injured against Iowa so I'll give Speight a pass in that game. The big disappointment for me was Speight's performance on our last drive against Florida State. I think he went 4 and out. But again, he's new to those situations and will likely do better if he gets the chance. There were a couple of close calls in the passing game against OSU and FSU that could have turned the final scores around.

[WM Wolverine]

Given the controversial nature of M's loss to OSU (plus it went to overtime), I think M could've gotten in ahead of Washington.

[entropy]

Given the controversial nature of M's loss to OSU (plus it went to overtime), I think M could've gotten in ahead of Washington.

agree... Washington was #4 more by default than an award. That's how I viewed it based upon what was said or what the "experts" said..

[Hannibal]

O'Korn put up some really good numbers his true freshman year. Better than the numbers he put up last year in his limited duty against the Indianas and Hawaiis of the world. There was good reason to believe that his problems were both mental and fixable with the right coach. I am pretty disappointed that he has made no progress at all at Michigan. We really need for an athletically gifted guy to perform to expectations. We have had that in a few spots over the past decade but nothing consistently. We had a couple of guys who got screwed over by bad coaching.

[WM Wolverine]

American Conference doesn't play defense however.