M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[THE_WIZARD_]

DO NOT FEED THE TALENT

[iam416]

Well researched, informative post Mr Talent (iam416). However you left out many of the good parts of the Harbaugh record. YOU CHERRY PICKED THE DATA.

You think I'm going to give HARBAUGH!!!! a fair shake in an off-season smack-ish discussion? Hehehehehehe.

So we agree that it will be a battle of Meyer(s) with running QBs versus Harbaugh with more pocket passers? The running QBs usually win in college, and the pass-first types in the pros. The trend is toward earlier maturation of professional football players, and it's likely that the pro style will become more effective in college. So your days are numbered, and those of your little Bucknuts too. You'll have to add more exclamation points to Harbaugh's name (and it appears you've been getting a bit slack in that regard).

I think UFM will be more spready and HARBAUGH!!!! will be more pro-set. But, that said, I think UFM recognizes he needs to be able to pass the ball better than he did last season. And I honestly think HARBAUGH!!!! realizes the value of a QB that is at least a threat to run.

You've mentioned Clemson on several occasions as a way that "offense can overcome talent" or something like. But Watson was a runner and Clemson's offense was very much spready.

Personally, I've always thought talent wins. Whatever system you want to run, if you load it with talent then you'll be ok. I used to pooh-pooh the spread a bit, but I've come around on it and now I generally prefer and offense that includes a run threat from the QB (spread or otherwise).

As for OSU-M, it's a fascinating arms race. I used to think JH could get M to roster parity in 3 years. That is, he could land 3 top 10 classes and OSU would land 3 top 10 classes and the rosters would basically be roughly equal. However, UFM has upped his recruiting game from elite to, I dunno, super-elite. It's batshit fucking crazy. Never in all my days would I have thought this type of recruiting was possible. So, I still think OSU is a step ahead roster-wise. Not for any failure to meet expectations on the part of HARBAUGH!!!!, but rather a fairly surprising upgrade on UFM's part.

Say what you want about UFM -- the dude can recruit.

[THE_WIZARD_]

shaddup

[iam416]

I thought we shared a moment with our shared love of German one-hit wonders, The Wizard. #Don'tyouwantme? #Iwanttoknowwhatloveis but my #brokenwings can't #flytotheangels, so I'm #workingfortheweekend wishing I was #upwherewebelong instead of battling #tainted loved. Hear my #carelesswhisper....#IjustcalledtosayIloveyou.

Or, fuck off.

[THE_WIZARD_]

I prefer the latter. Fuck you very much.

#doyoureallywannahurtme

[Jeff Buchanan]

........Say what you want about UFM -- the dude can recruit.

Well, the events in the universe are also random. That might account for some of the "bat-shit" crazy recruiting success you assign to meyer. Whatever.

Prefer a QB that presents a run threat? Fair point ..... against a defense that get's sucked in by that or one's that lack the instinctive read and God given speed, i.e. talent, of (the now hybrid types) of LBs.

M's not one of those defenses lacking such things. JH invested heavily in Don Brown and M's defense is a step ahead in the talent, depth and quality than M's offense. I never would have thought that would happen but ti has.

[iam416]

Perhaps. I dunno, I don't think Clemson puts 35 up on Bama with a statute back there. I think they needed Watson's legs or at least the threat of his legs.

Now, perhaps Bama doesn't have the "dudes" Don Brown does or the Genius of Don Brown, but....ummmm....no.

[WM Wolverine]

Better team usually wins The Game, Ohio State has had more talent than M since Tressell arrived there save maybe 3 or 4 times in what, 16 games? I think both head coaches realize you need to both being able to pass the ball and run the ball well. Stopping the pass is more critical than ever as-is rushing the passer.

I don't think we'll ever see another QB near as un-athletic as Wilton Speight while Harbaugh is here. Brandon Peters, Dylan McCaffrey, Joe Milton & JT Daniels are all plenty athletic. More in the mold of say Shane Morris, who is a pretty good athlete, that can extend plays scrambling and pick up first downs with his feet if the defense doesn't account for him.

[hack]

Last year's game the exception.

Speight was great at extending plays with his legs and finishing them with his arm. The problems were when he wasn't being pressured.

I hope Peters leapfrogs him, but that would say a lot more about how great Peters is than about how bad Speight is. Speight is still pretty good. Consistency in his second season and he'll be looking NFL-worthy.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Speight will most likely start despite a wobbly spring game and up and down reports from Rome practices. This despite how good Peters actually looked in the spring game and, if I'm not mistaken, against mostly the 2s defensively.

I have received my eCopy of mgoblog's Hail..... all 132 pages of it. The section on QBs starts like this:

As a rule, starting quarterbacks don’t get replaced except in the direst of circumstances. Wilton Speight’s erratic but productive sophomore season—62% completion percentage, 7.7 yards per attempt, and 18-7 TD-INT ratio—does not qualify as a dire circumstance.

Advanced stats had Michigan’s passing game 28th nationally (S&P+), which is plenty good enough for a first year starter to maintain his job. That goes double for a guy who missed one game because of a collarbone injury and played in two others while clearly still wounded. Speight was reasonably efficient, super tough, and still exploring his upside last year.

He goes on to give a head nod to Brandon Peter's apparent upside that we saw in the spring game and at least give some credence to the notion he could leap-frog Speight. I don't think that is likely.

[WM Wolverine]

Harbaugh didn't seem too hesitant to put Alex Smith on the bench in favor of Colin Kaepernick...

I think the better QB plays and it's not a bad thing if Speight is the starter for the next couple seasons. I'd agree with the consensus, he's somewhat close to his 'limited' upside and Peters and others have higher ceilings but Speight is already very solid and better than all but a few B1G QB's we'll be facing on Saturdays.

[hack]

Yeah - Smith/Kaep is why you don't rule it out.

[Hannibal]

Speight will most likely start despite a wobbly spring game and up and down reports from Rome practices. This despite how good Peters actually looked in the spring game and, if I'm not mistaken, against mostly the 2s defensively.

I have received my eCopy of mgoblog's Hail..... all 132 pages of it. The section on QBs starts like this:

As a rule, starting quarterbacks don?t get replaced except in the direst of circumstances. Wilton Speight?s erratic but productive sophomore season?62% completion percentage, 7.7 yards per attempt, and 18-7 TD-INT ratio?does not qualify as a dire circumstance.

Advanced stats had Michigan?s passing game 28th nationally (S&P+), which is plenty good enough for a first year starter to maintain his job. That goes double for a guy who missed one game because of a collarbone injury and played in two others while clearly still wounded. Speight was reasonably efficient, super tough, and still exploring his upside last year.

He goes on to give a head nod to Brandon Peter's apparent upside that we saw in the spring game and at least give some credence to the notion he could leap-frog Speight. I don't think that is likely.

The mgoblog piece is conventional wisdom. It doesn't apply with the current UM-OSU situation being what it is.

[iam416]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a few commits this weekend.

As for Speight/Peters/Whomever, I can't imagine HARBAUGH!!!! not playing the kid he thinks is best. I don't particularly fear Speight. At all. But, if he's the best M has, he'll start.

[Jeff Buchanan]

No question ...... if Peters is "better" than Speight, however JH defines that, he'll play.

Opening game, 110K fans, all the pre-game jitters that are common place for any athlete of any standing, Speight has experienced that, Peters hasn't.

First must have third and long, live game, fans chanting/cheering, tackle gets edged blitzing S is unblocked, I like a healthy Speight's chances for an escape and gain with his legs or better yet a big pass play to the uncovered receiver over a raw Peters.

For a college QB, those two things are big deals.

Peters is going to have to demonstrate that he is better than a pretty good Speight under those circumstances and will have that opportunity only in a practice setting where there is no where near the pressure that there is in a live game.

Peters will play under one or several of these conditions:

Speight is hurt.

Garbage time.

Speight gets yanked by JH for poor decision making or turning the ball over. He's probably done if that happens and you can anoint Brandon Peters the starter from then on out.

For now, unless things change dramatically, Speight will take the first live game snap of the 2017 season.