M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Hannibal]

He represented Stanford just fine.

If some douchebag vetoes a Harbaugh hire for some reason other than football, then heads need to roll.

[Hannibal]

To understate things a bit, this is a big season for Hoke. I'm trying to think of current CFB HCs that didn't win in their first 3 years -- or rather, were comparable to Hoke -- and went on to long, successful careers. The coach that comes to mind, but who isn't active, is Mack Brown. He started off with 3 good seasons -- all 9 wins -- but 27-11 isn't great. He sort of kept building momentum, slowly.

That short list is dwarfed by the Charlie Weis and Larry Coker types who have had early success followed by failure.

Mack and Hoke have a lot in common. They both are great recruiters who do a poor job of developing players. I'd still take Mack over Hoke though. The guy that Hoke reminds me of the most is Ron Zook.

[iam416]

Woof. That's horrifying if you're an M fan.

[Rocky Bleier]

There's probably another Gary Andersen out there, but I doubt that Brandon would be able to find him.

[Rocky Bleier]

The fans wouldn't give a fuck. I think that the regents would get over it too.

No, the fans, including me, wouldn't care. I'd be happy to have him even if he is a prick. I still think Michigan is more image conscious than most. I'm wrong if he was actually in the running four years ago, but Brandon would never admit he was spurned.

[Hannibal]

The good thing about coaching searches is that there is some luck involved, so even Brandon could stumble into somebody really good.

[UMStan White]

"I'd be happy to have him even if he is a prick"

Bo was one of the biggest pricks to ever walk the sideline. Hated fans. Said if it was up to him they'd play in an empty stadium. It wasn't Bo or "toughness" that packed that stadium. It was Canham's marketing of the "game day experience". Both Canham and Brandon came from running businesses. The only difference was Canham knew what he was doing.

[WM Wolverine]

After being mediocre or worse for some time, I think the University would finally decide that they need an elite coach that would fill the seats.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Canham was a coach wasn't he?

[iam416]

Non-teethgnashing news, Hilliard and Cornell choose OSU. Huzzah. Baker should do so next week. And they could still land another 2 top 100 kids later this month. All of this is well and good, but if Chris Ash can't get that defense playing competent football, I'm not going to be happy.

Back to Hoke and the would-be successors to the throne.

[WM Wolverine]

Hoke will bring us to a happy place, a level below Urban and the Buckeyes.

[Jeff Buchanan]

So, you're saying the deciders will collectively be happy with 3rd place or something like it and no BCS bowls?

[WM Wolverine]

No. 2nd place behind the Buckeys but 2nd (sometimes 3rd) best team in the B10. Win some B10/division titles, play in some major bowls (Rose, Orange, Fiesta, Cotton, etc.) and potentially play in some playoff games, that's 'good enough' for the University imo even though some of us fans wish they had higher aspirations. The University will be quite happy with 10-2 regular seasons, that's just my perception...

I see Urban and the Buckeyes as a top 5-6 program for the next decade, unsure on where Hoke is leading us and '14 & '15 will tell us a great deal.

[Jeff Buchanan]

No. 2nd place behind the Buckeys but 2nd (sometimes 3rd) best team in the B10. Win some B10/division titles, play in some major bowls (Rose, Orange, Fiesta, Cotton, etc.) and potentially play in some playoff games, that's 'good enough' for the University imo even though some of us fans wish they had higher aspirations. The University will be quite happy with 10-2 regular seasons, that's just my perception...

I see Urban and the Buckeyes as a top 5-6 program for the next decade, unsure on where Hoke is leading us and '14 & '15 will tell us a great deal.

Well, we've been saying 'xx or 'yy season will tell us ..... whatever, since, oh,let's just say, since Lloyd Carr retired in 2007.

I think M is headed for an extended period of Division finishes in the 3-5 range ..... mid tier. I see osu, PSU, MSU and Wisconsin as the top four finishers in the Division with those teams fighting it out regularly for B10 CCGs and BCS bowls. M will be duking it out with the Gophers, Hawkeyes and Neb.

M football is pretty much where it was under Bump Elliot in the mid-60s. It's gotten there by bad management of the program since 2006. From the consistent success of the program under Bo, Gary, and Lloyd, that success spanning the period from 1969-2006, the program survives on the national scene only because of past glory days. There are plenty of elite programs that have gone down the same path. It's just M's time to do it although, IMO, it was avoidable.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I think there are some player development issues on Hoke's staff ..... I think there were similar problems on RR's staff just worse. I think both Rodriguez and Hoke are limited as far as reaching the elite status of those coaches of today's best CFB teams.

But I don't think that (coaching) is the major issue facing the M football program. Right now, it's Dave Brandon. We can just forget about past program management issues, none of them insignificant to say the least, but there is nothing that can be done about them.

As long as Brandon is around, M football will continue to stagnate. Here are my top 5 things this idiot has done (not in any order), each independently doing damage to the football program, the collective effect of each broadside, sinking it:

(1) Firing Rich Rodriguez .... in particular the timing of it.

(2) Hiring Brady Hoke ... in particular how the coaching search was carried out.

(3) Not firing Brady Hoke and his entire staff after going 7-6, losing 5 of the last 6 games that season, including back to back humiliating losses to Neb and MSU, in 2013. The coaching incompetence of every aspect of the game, in those two games in particular, was so overwhelmingly obvious that it should not have been ignored.

(4) Allowing the Division scheduling debacle that resulted in back to back home games for MSU, among other bone-headed moves that produced the 2014 home schedule.

(5) Pissing off the students and loyal alumni/M football enthusiasts with some of the most asinine decisions about ticket pricing, sales and the game day experience that he could have possibly made.

I cannot fathom how, after his massively inept management, that he is still running the Athletic Department at M. I think I do understand the culture within the University that tolerates it but that makes it no easier to swallow. I do believe that after the number of empty seats in the Big House that will be pointed out by every broadcaster doing an M football game in the 2014 season will point out, those concerned with the image of M and indirectly M football will correctly assign fault for that squarely where it belongs. With Dave Brandon.

I'm betting Brandon is gone in January of 2015 but Hoke stays .... not that that is an ideal outcome but it is a step in the right direction. The whole lot of them could be gone if Hoke wins only 6 or 7 games.

I predict some level of chaos should, somehow, both of them get dumped but it usually takes something like that to create the ingredients for massive change ... something the football program needs. But given how M does things, I suspect they'd avoid an outcome like that and the ensuing chaos if at all possible.