M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Cody_Russell]

OSU sucks at basketball... and they are losing 4 (Williams, Scott, Russell, & Thompson) of their 5 starters after this season.
It's going to be a while for them to be a contender. ha

I mean, OSU has a win vs Maryland at home back when Maryland was in their slump... who else did they beat?

[hack]

Put another way, who else did WE beat? That says a lot about how it just hasn't added up for them either this year. I'm surprised.

I went to Hampton@Howard last night. MEAC rivalry, to decide ``who the REAL HU us''. A ton of small-school fun, and Howard's band is amazing. Then I caught the end of Arizona/Utah. Good day of college basketball.

[Dr. Strangelove]

We are not that good...but we just beat Purdue...beat Indiana and Maryland in back-to-back games. But we can't play worth a shit on the road.

A down year for OSU at this point means 21-8...I'll take it. Matta's a great coach.

[hack]

Hard to argue that. I'd be awfully disappointed given you have a transcendent and presumably one-and-done guy and for some reason things are just off, but, long-term, he's been great and will continue to be.

[Cody_Russell]

Long term, I'd argue there isn't any experience that is going to carry over for Ohio State... So it's questionable that it will get better.
Russell, Sam Thompson, Shannon Scott, Amir Williams, and Trey McDonald are gone.
The only players returning with experience are Tate and Loving.
5 out of top 7 rotation players gone? Next season won't be that much better for OSU.

Compare that with Michigan, Purdue, and IU... Basically everyone on those rosters are coming back.

[WM Wolverine]

That '11 class of Thompson, Scott, Ross, Williams class sure was a bust... I had higher much expectations for that group....

While M's class in '12 should've set M up for success for some time had so many players leave early: Nik Stauskus, Mitch McGary, Glenn Robinson III and possibly Caris LeVert...

[Cody_Russell]

Long term, I'd argue there isn't any experience that is going to carry over for Ohio State... So it's questionable that it will get better.
Russell, Sam Thompson, Shannon Scott, Amir Williams, and Trey McDonald are gone.
The only players returning with experience are Tate and Loving.
5 out of top 7 rotation players gone? Next season won't be that much better for OSU.

Compare that with Michigan, Purdue, and IU... Basically everyone on those rosters are coming back.

[iam416]

OSU sucks at basketball... and they are losing 4 (Williams, Scott, Russell, & Thompson) of their 5 starters after this season.
It's going to be a while for them to be a contender. ha

LOL. Ah, the short-lived joy up being up 12 at halftime.

As for OSU, they'll have some decent young players back. Loving and Tate are solid. Kam Williams has flashed a bit this year and I think he'll get better. And KBD is a true freshman who I expect to improve. Throw in a top 5-6 class coming in with 3 top 50 players and they'll be fine next year.

Their problem, IMO, is that they lack backbone. They basically lose close games on the road.

[iam416]

2016-17 OSU recruiting. Kids that OSU are likely to sign with OSU and their 247 Composite ranking:

2016

7. Kareem Walker (RB -- OSU Verbal)
10. Nick Bosa (DE)
50. Demario McCall (RB)
66. George Hill (RB -- OSU Verbal)
67. Jake Hausmann (TE -- OSU Verbal)
70. Brendan Ferns (LB)
71. Prince Sammons (SDE)
80. Liam Eichenberg (OT)
97. Justin Layne (WR)
99. Jarrett Guarantano (QB) (least likely to be in the class...Rutgers? Woof...)
104. Austin Robertson (WDE) (2nd least likely....may not have room?)
119. Austin Mack (WR)
142. Terrell Hall (WDE) (OSU Verbal)
162. Jonathan Cooper (OSU Verbal)

Others OSU Verbals: Tyler Gerald (OG) (#192); Kierre Hawkins (HBack) (#282)

I expect Cooper to end up in the top 100 of the 247 Composite, so I listed him even though he's currently outside the top 150.

2017

3. Josh Myers (OT) (OSU Verbal)
10. Trevon Grimes (WR)
14. Shaun Wade (CB) (OSU Verbal...heh....I'd be surprised if this one sticks)
17. Bruce Judson (ATH) (OSU Verbal)
48. Danny Clark (QB) (OSU Verbal)
67. Marcus Williamson (CB)

Grimes, I think, is very likely to be a Buckeye. Wade, heh, we'll see. He's at least interested. I think Judson will stick. Clark and Myers are locks to stick.

[Jeff Buchanan]

meyer and osu have become a recruiting machine with excellent sustainability equaling, IMO, that of Saban and Bama.

JH has a lot of territory to cover before M can claim that kind of status. We don't have a clue of whether or not he can actually cover it.

I like Harbaugh, I like him a lot. Who doesn't. But he's got a lot of obstacles to clear: Location, football reputation (past glory .... distantly past, only goes so far with these kids), the reality of mid-west demographics, etc.

I like where M is but unlike the majority idiots on the boards at mgoblog who think every big name, high value high school kid is going to follow the pied piper to AA, I'm sitting back, with much improved interest levels, to see what's going to happen in the next 2-4 years.

[iam416]

Your perspective serves you well, JB. I've said it before and it's certainly worth repeating: recruiting and the rest of it are different ballgames. I have zero doubt about JH and the latter. He will develop players well; he will coach his team well; he handle in-game shit well. Recruiting, on the other hand, isn't a slam dunk. You gotta be good at it. M and JH will rarely be an obvious choice for a top 100 player. Same can be said for OSU and UFM, though they have slightly more leeway b/c of Ohio homebase. For each program (and, hell, for EVERY program), you have to sell the kid on why your big name program and your big name coach is his best option.

JH (and UFM and Saban, etc) can walk in and crush it with 3* kids that are being recruited by middle-tier P5 teams. But to get elite talent you go up against elite programs and elite coaches. The program + his name opens lots of doors and generates lots of interest. So, that's a huge positive. But going from in the door to the commit is the tough part. I think JH is probably going to really well recruiting, but it's not a given, IMO (as opposed to the far more important football stuff).

No one is Alabama when it comes to recruiting. Ohio State is positioned nicely for this cycle because (a) Ohio has a high number of really good prospects; (b) Nick Bosa is a top 15 national player; and (c) the #1 RB is fully on-board. It's a nice confluence. Plus, you know, this is their 4th season so they're recruiting approach is in full swing -- they've probably been in on most of their top 2016 targets for 2 years now.

Harbaugh needs some time. Build some relationships. Start to erase the mediocrity. I fully expect him to do really, really well in 2017. He'll have the relationships. He should have a pretty decent turnaround. He'll be selling more than dreams; he'll be selling a turnaround.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Well put.

I worry less about serving myself well than informing the mindless minions whose well being is defined by the fortunes of M football. It's natural for them to have unsupported expectations about the rise of Michigan football with the second coming of Bo ..... not that Bo was that great to begin with. Loved him, still do ..... he was an idol of mine in my younger years ..... but that was a LONG time ago and so is the greatness of Michigan Football.

Age bestows perspective. In that regard, I can't get overly excited about Jim Harbaugh. I think it's great he took the job in Ann Arbor. I actually think he wanted to do it much earlier than now but then ..... Brandon. Smart guy, that Harbaugh fellow. But, to be frank, Jim is an odd-ball. Always has been. He's wired differently than most. That's not a criticism either. Guys like him succeed. He has some of the same wiring that ufm has: incredible intensity, focus on the task at hand, a good football mind, all of that. But he's still a weirdo.

We have no idea if in 2 or 3 years he's got M football mired in the also ran category much like Bo. Bo had his moments; his leadership and personality was legendary. Sound familiar? Don't get me wrong. I'd be pretty happy if, like Bo, M was going 10 and 1 or 9 and 2 and playing in a decent bowl every January, beating osu every once in a while to get there.

But the reality for JH is that football is markedly different than what it was in Bo's days. None of you reading this need to be told that. Competition is fierce and there are a lot of epic compromises, conscious decisions made by people involved in big time football programs, made in order to win. Whether or not Jim Harbaugh can compete with the likes of the current powers, osu and Bama, FSU, Oregon and commers like USC and probably PSU and then MSU w/Dantonio is always going to be a prickly pear, is yet to be determined. Keep in mind, the culture of M football, and make no mistake, JH is of that culture, there will be NO compromises the likes of which everyone knows are going on elsewhere.

Age also bestows some degree of patience and believe me I was never a patient person so, my current status as described by many is not all that much improved. But I am really in a wait and see mode about this for all of the above reasons.

[iam416]

The more I think about JH's potential trajectory as M HC, the more I think this year will be the keystone. I think he has a decent foundation. I've been converted a bit by Mgo to think it's not quite as good as I first thought. But, I still think it's solid. He has one glaring weakness that is certainly remediable. So, I think you watch this year for progression. For example, Tressel's first OSU team finished 7-5, but they progressed really well throughout the season. I think that's important for JH because I view this season and next season as a couplet. It will be, for the most part, the same team. So progressing and developing is key for 2016. Conversely, if they don't progress or don't look good then it spells real problems for 2016.

I also think this season's recruiting class is hugely important. If JH can bring in a really strong class, he can avoid problems with the huge losses in 2016. It might be a minor rebuilding year, but it might not. After last season's OSU team, I refuse to project what a team will look like in 3 years -- I mean, JTB, Elliot, Bosa, Bell, Lee, Thomas, Samuel, Apple...those guys were in HS 3 years ago. That's my point on recruiting -- he can carry over momentum in 2017 with a really good class this season.

So, you know, if the 2015 improves throughout the season -- maybe you find a legit B10 QB by the middle of the season -- and M gets 7-9 wins looking far better in November than in September, that's pretty encouraging. If JH then lands a top 10 caliber class or better next February, that gives you some real hope for a smoother transition from 2016 to 2017.

The nightmare scenario is that the talent just there. M doesn't really find a QB (and, hey, JH's QB at Stanford for his first two seasons was dogshit). And his recruiting is strong, but not elite. Then you're left waiting. For awhile.

[hack]

No question about it that he's got to have a really strong year this year to pull in a few late-deciding recruits who can put the class over the top and avoid a hiccup. He's got to turn it from proposition to reality ASAP.

[Prime2]

Oh please, Hoke went 11-2 riding "smoke and mirrors" in his first season, then fell off a cliff.

Harbaugh is going to hammer-out the wins, and draw the elite of the elite, ask Luck, rapist Winston & Petty and the countless HS kids with realistic NFL aspirations that emulate them.