M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[WM Wolverine]

You need elite talent to compete in the CFP, Ohio has that. M has very good talent from the '12 & '13 classes that'll mostly be around another couple years. M has the caliber of talent to contend at the B10 level but I can't see them fairing too well against the elite teams in the nation.

[iam416]

That's where I see them short-term. The bump up from B10 elite to National elite takes some time.

[Jeff Buchanan]

It's stupid to argue speed on defense isn't important so, I won't but I will say this.

I think it's over rated. If a DE, LB or S is in the right position when the ball is snapped and reads his keys correctly, he'll look pretty fast. If not, he'll look slow.

Now, no question, speed helps a ton if you get schooled by a formation/decoy and are out of position to make a play, you can overcome the initial screw up.

I think you're right about speed regarding M's DEs, to a lesser extent Ss and to a greater extent the LBs. There's no one at LB with great speed or, it appears, instincts. I'd hope good coaching puts them in the right position most of the time to make the play ........ and what else would you expect me to say?

[iam416]

It's a reaction to the spread. It forces your defense to be good everywhere. You need to take away the inside read with stout DTs. You need to have athletic, fast DEs that can handle outside zone. You need good DBs. And your LBs have to be able to play in space.

The B10, though, forces you to deal with some mashing offenses, too. Wisconsin is most notable. Michigan will presumably be there. So there's also the danger of being to small and fast and getting plowed.

Heh, I guess what I'm saying is that to be elite you just need really, really good players that kick ass against anything. Heh. Another insight for the ages.

Anyway, when I look at OSU's defense, I see Bosa up front, Lee at LB and Bell in the secondary as 3 guys who are absolute difference-makers. They have lots of other good players around them, but those 3 stand out. I don't think there's any "coaching up" a player into a Bosa or a Lee or a Bell. You just have to get your own. Now, you have Peppers. So you're on your way.

[iam416]

Good post outlining basics of Ohio State run game: http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-s...l-championship

[Jeff Buchanan]

Nice analysis .......

Couple of things:

It looks like that meyer used a good deal of deception in the second half against Oregon by running an entirely different set of plays that formation wise looked like one thing but turned out to be another.

I thought the diversity of the plays out of a handful of formations/blocking schemes was really impressive (e.g., Y blocking the backside DE).

I still like to give RR credit for using diversity out of a handful of formations ..... making the D think this is what is coming but instead, you get this and its usually a big play. The number of things going on in Meyer's offense (a) is much more diverse than RRs and (b) takes a QB and RB that can make the reads .... especially Elliot. On the replays, he made some big time reads showing he understood where the point of attack was supposed to be and hit it.

It still seems though for the OL and for Elliot and Jones, how a play is run is not that complex.

[iam416]

Elliot really grew as a RB. He went from plowing forward for as much as he could get to really finding his vision. He's really good.

The OL has to benefit tremendously from running 4 or 5 run-blocking plays. Whatever the action in the backfield, it's all the same to those guys. The breakdown hinted at it, but I have to think the huge volume of reps had to help that group come along.

The nuances of the basics are where Herman and UFM really did damage. Yeah, it's right up RichGOD's alley. They run a counter-trey that is, in principle, the same thing the f'n Redskins ran with John Riggins. But, it can modified to increase advantage. Use the H-back as a horizontal constraint (and you have to respect Marshall on the jet sweep). Use the Y as the 2nd puller. Run away from the passing formation to avoid downfield help. And, of course, the threat of the pass holding the safeties. It's tough. If you don't have a DL that whip some people you're in a world of trouble.

RichGOD knew it. I don't think he ever had as much talent as OSU nor do I think he was ever quite as dedicated to the TB -- maybe with Slaton, I dunno. RichGOD's shit went beyond the tackle box to run-pass options and a lot of the stuff Oregon does with Mariotta. Pressing the defense on he edge. Good stuff.

Hey -- that's why you need guys who can play in space! And badass DTs!

[iam416]

12-Win Seasons for Big Ten Teams in the BCS/CFP Playoff Era (1998-Present):

Ohio State: 6
Wisconsin: 1
Michigan State: 1
Rest of Big Ten: 0

Michigan (1997) and Penn State (1994) (as a B10 member) each had one pre-BCS in the Poll era. Nebraska had one in the BCS/CFP era and a number in the poll era, but never as a B10 member.

Put another way...12-win seasons in the Poll Era (1936-present):

Non-Ohio State Big 10: 4
UFM's OSU Teams: 3

[iam416]

11 Wins Season for Big Ten Teams: BCS/CFP -- Poll Era to BCS -- Total

Ohio State: 10 -- 4 -- 14
Wisconsin: 5 -- 0 -- 5
Penn State (1993): 3 -- 2 -- 5
Michigan: 2 -- 3 -- 5
Michigan State: 4 -- 0 -- 4

[Mike]

Well that's just like.... your opinion, man...

[iam416]

Well-played. Love that line.

Have it your way, Dude.

[hack]

Eight-year-olds, Dude.

[hack]

Seriously Mike's is the best Lewboski reference here since JRB pointed out that OSU's HC is a creep who can roll. Very tasteful and appropriate.

[iam416]

That line is my single favorite thing to throw out in the middle of an argument in response to a wall of facts or some seemingly incontrovertible statement. However, on occasion I do mix it up and go with Walter's "have it your way, Dude" -- both are either met with a knowing smile and/or chuckle or sheer puzzlement. I also find it a great way to suss out one of humanity's defining metrics: those who KNOW the Big Lebowski and those who do not.

[hack]

One of the best parts of that movie is how characters that do not meet each other parrot each other's lines. Sam Elliot says the same thing after Dude refuses to stop cussin', and that's who I always think of when I hear it. Another example is Walter repeats the word goldbricking from the Malibu police chief. He also repeats something President Bush says on the TV right at the start; I forget what.

Also incredibly underappreciated btw: ``Dieter has been on the fringes of, well, everything, in LA for the past 20 years.'' Says it all.

That script is FUCKING TIGHT. It's literature. Deserves some of the same kinda praise Shakespeare's dialogue gets.