M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Jeff Buchanan]

He brought SEC speed, among other things, to the BIG.

[WM Wolverine]

Pretty much told us what we already knew about Urban's medical hardships and over-signing.

[lineygoblue]

I guess that SEC on the job training helped him out a lot.

[iam416]

LOL. Since when is a message board post news? Hilarious.

I'm going to start linking Hineygate posts here as fact. Heh.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Most of the time, our resident osu posters here are able to provide context to a post ..... like these are the facts in this matter.

I get it that those on a pedestal are going to be recipients of multiple cheap shots. But ufm (or either UF or osu programs) seems to get an awful lot of these.

Where there is smoke, there is fire has been a constant refrain with respect to osu's conduct under it's last two coaches. It's hard not to wonder when unseemly events within osu's revenue sports are reported that there is not something to them.

That you dismiss these reports as malicious rumors doesn't help that perception. I know, you don't care.

[iam416]

I don't care. I certainly don't care about anything from Reddit, which is more or less an f'n message board. I could talk about every player that left the program (just as you can talk about every player that left M's program). I could talk about all the medicals, the kids dismissed for criminal stuff (oh, how ironic it is for UFM to get flayed for THAT!) and kids who just left -- some surely told they weren't ever going to see the field. But M fans wouldn't care. I learned that lesson well and truly in 2011. You have your narrative. It's a superficial statement that requires effort in the weeds to explain and put in context that will reap absolutely no benefit for me. I'm happier just LOL'ing and carrying on my merry way as the first ever "UNDISPUTED" CFP National Champion and clear Preseason #1. Oversign some more, I say!

Anyway, I think Brian posted or wrote briefly on it:

The Buckeyes have already lost a whopping 12 players from their 2012 class. Anyone that doubts the legitimacy of the injuries should note that all three players mentioned above were legitimate contributors; this isn't a Sabanesque "instead of sitting on the bench for two more years, you now have a back injury." Armani Reeves, especially, is a significant loss.

It's worth noting here that Michigan is pretty darn close to being in the same situation. If they take Stanford transfer Wayne Lyons and add Roquan Smith, they'd be temporarily over the 85-man limit, and I haven't seen anyone here complain about either possibility; ditto Weber finding a way out of his LOI and coming back into the fold. Michigan wasn't about to turn away Chris Clark or Van Jefferson on Wednesday, either. Unless Lyons and Smith both end up as Wolverines, I'd expect Michigan will only hit the scholarship limit if they award them to a current walk-on or two.

Attrition happens in football, and coaches are usually aware of potential losses before anyone else. Taking that into account when putting together a recruiting class isn't sketchy; it's smart roster construction.

It's worth noting that the 2012 class was UFM's first class and the one he hastily put together. I could go over all 12 of the kids who have left from that class and easily, EASILY, explain each.

[hack]

You generally lump in the silly side of Michigan's perception of OSU with the valid side and use that to negate the whole thing -- you'll find the most extreme thing said here and later post as if it's a general consensus. Obviously there are sensible and also less-sensible ways to assert that OSU's program is craven. You've given us more than enough material.

[iam416]

I dunno. I consider this to be an outlier for fanboards. I assume if there is a majority negative OSU opinion here, it probably runs through more M fans than not and is greatly amplifed on dunceville forums. And I can take the temperature of this forum easily. The recruiting thread and this thread date back to 2011. It's easy to read and get a fairly accurate sense of where the forum lies. The take on OSU in 2011 under Tressel was fairly consistent. The take on UFM was mostly consistent (Pasadena Blue was a breath of fresh air in that regard). The take on UFM-Hoke was fairly consistent. And the take on UFM-Harbaugh is fairly consistent -- way mellowed down after Hoke-UFM debacle. I've said as much.

If you think I misrepresent the views of M fans or, in particular, the views of M fans on this board, lemme know. I know OP is an outlier, but sometimes not as much as you think.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder...where on the M-fan spectrum do you place your consistently espoused view that, more or less, "OSU is always cheating and has never won, at least in this millenium, without cheating...and that probably goes for hoops, too."

[Hannibal]

I perceive Meyer as a guy who just wants to coach football professionally and who doesn't necessarily care who plays for him and who probably wishes that he didn't have to put up with the ancilliary bullshit that goes along with being a coach. FWIW he has been a head coach at four universities and to my knowledge there hasn't been a sniff of illegal doings any of them. In that he is dramatically different from his predecessor.

[iam416]

Hmmmm. I don't know what UFM thinks about glad-handing alumni and such. I can't imagine many sane folks would actually like it. He does, however, really like recruiting. I think he really, really likes the college game. JMO.

[hack]

I think it's clear. Occam's razor and all that. Demonstrable. You've got a culture down there and there's plenty of information available about what it's all about.

UFM on the other hand I think is going to end up looking to me like a Pitino in some ways -- looks dirtier than he is in terms of NCAA violations specifically. Because there is a track record there, and when it gets to be close to two or three decades long without major trouble then that's a form of big data appropriate to this discussion. Surely he's no angel, and there's definitely a slimey side, but he doesn't appear to need or use that crutch like Tressell did. As far as what I can tell, which is just from afar and I'm no longer in AA to pick up on chatter anyways. But he does seem different, and is so good as a coach that he doesn't need the trouble anyways. Tressell was a good coach but the cheating was an elemental part of the mix. He seemed to need it and thrive on it. When you add in the books and public persona, it's as if hypocrisy is oxygen to him. The people of Ohio's insistence on not only ignoring the obvious but elevating the guy is completely astonishing. This is open-and-shut stuff here. Not on par with the Paterno cult in PA, and I recognize the reluctance to be honest about your past when it diminishes accomplishments so cherished, but facts are facts. Michigan won't put up those Fab Five banners and shouldn't. It's a shameful period and I'm proud to be associated with that approach, no matter how much those games and players meant to me at the time.

[iam416]

I already know what your opinion is and have zero interest in it. My question is whether it's generally held by M fans or not. I'd hate to misrepresent such an esteemed fanbase.

[hack]

Having zero interest in it means wondering about it and querying the author about it?

[WM Wolverine]

I think your past two coaches played a lot in the gray area of the rules, in different ways.

[iam416]

Having zero interest in it means wondering about it and querying the author about it?

I didn't ask for your opinion, I asked where on the M-fan bell curve it falls since you accused me of misrepresenting M fan's perception of OSU:

where on the M-fan spectrum do you place your consistently espoused view that, more or less, "OSU is always cheating and has never won, at least in this millenium, without cheating...and that probably goes for hoops, too."

I've yet to receive that answer.