M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Agreed.... I'm not sure where Hanni's sentiment about Wisconsin comes from.

[Hannibal]

Long term prospects always come down to tradition, resources, and recruiting base. Wisconsin has perhaps built themselves a meh tradition recently, but it's still pretty weak. Resources are still not very good, as they just lost a winning coach to a non-elite SEC program. Recruiting base is garbage.

You can only overachieve for so long.

[hack]

Michigan is proving that the reverse is true. You can underachieve for a long time.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Long term prospects always come down to tradition, resources, and recruiting base. Wisconsin has perhaps built themselves a meh tradition recently, but it's still pretty weak. Resources are still not very good, as they just lost a winning coach to a non-elite SEC program. Recruiting base is garbage.

You can only overachieve for so long.

I think that's true. However, by virtue of the decline of the B10 and it's predictable middling accomplishments nationally, Wisconsin appears to have what it takes to end up on the top of a very average football conference going forward

That grants access to the BCS. It's rather like being the best of the worst and that is exactly where B1G football is headed, IMO. Demographics which limits the talent pool, and weather which limits B1G programs from casting a wide recruiting net are both factors here. Given those limiting factors for overall success of B1G member teams, the leadership of those programs cannot afford to make bad coaching hire decisions. Where Michigan has floundered in that regard, other programs, including Wisconsin, if their on field performance over the same decade we're looking at M is a measure of that, have done well.

Can the brand, tradition and allure of the Big House return M to the the top of the heap? Remains to be seen but the incredible stupidity and undermining of the drawing power of those things by top administrators at Michigan over a decade makes that appear as unlikely.

[Hannibal]

Michigan is proving that the reverse is true. You can underachieve for a long time.

Indeed, you can.

Wisconsin, for that matter, didn't do jack shit for about 10 years before they suddenly became elite again in 2010.

Here are their Big Ten records since 2000...

2000 4-4
2001 3-5
2002 2-6 (!)
2003 4-4, didn't play Michigan
2004 6-2, but didn't play champ co-champ Michigan
2005 5-3, lost to Penn State and didn't play Ohio State
2006 7-1, didn't play Ohio State
2007 5-3
2008 3-5, lost to RichRod LOL
2009 5-3
2010 7-1
2011 7-2
2012 5-4 (only participated in CCG because of OSU's probation)
2013 3-1 so far

In the oughts their Big Ten record was 44-36. Meh

They had two legitimately great if not elite years in 2010 and 2011. The past two seasons, their Big Ten record is 8-5 so far. Meh. (to give you some perspective, ours is 9-3 in that time, and nobody thinks of us as elite or even good).

[Dr. Strangelove]

Other than Nebraska, who has better long-term prospects than Wisconsin in the West? And Wisconsin's athletic department, on the whole, makes more money than Nebraska's.

[Hannibal]

I put Wisconsin about even with Iowa and Illinois when it comes to long term prospects. I don't think that they are great for any of those programs. IMHO Illinois is a massive long term underachiever that may break out of it someday when they find a good coach. But underachivement can last a long time. Just look at Texas A&M and UCLA.

[Chuck Mallory]

Don't forget the '98 and '99 Rose Bowl Wisconsin teams that got handled by Michigan.

[whodean]

Other than Nebraska, who has better long-term prospects than Wisconsin in the West?

That's just it, nobody scares you there in the Big10.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I put Wisconsin about even with Iowa and Illinois when it comes to long term prospects. I don't think that they are great for any of those programs. IMHO Illinois is a massive long term underachiever that may break out of it someday when they find a good coach. But underachivement can last a long time. Just look at Texas A&M and UCLA.

Illinois has never been a consistently good team in my lifetime or my dad's lifetime except for a brief time in the 80's when they were cheating. Their fan support isn't remotely as good as Wisconsin.

Dean- Iowa has beaten a fair number of SEC teams in recent bowl games. So shaddup

[Optimus Prime]

Perhaps Meyer should commission Matt Hayes to write a "glamour piece", loitering in the bowels at Yahoo is not going to cut it.

No signature wins, unless you count 5-loss Cal or 2- loss and unranked NW. On a bright note, there's that win over now 2-loss Wisconsin but they hang precariously to the 25th and last ranking in the AP and still have a pulse.

Someone should take the time to actually explain to these assclowns how this actually works.

For example, #5 FSU will face #3 ranked Clemson in a stellar matchup where the victor stands a pretty good chance of leaping Ohio in the polls a just reward for actually playing a proper schedule....hell these teams aren't even in the SEC!

Last, as for Miller hanging with Alabama? WTF, he's missed 3 or 4 games already to injury it appears his head is as soft as his body.

Meyer's 6-game win streak cheapens by the minute.


"COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Ohio State quarterback Braxton Miller went home over the bye week and took the opportunity to watch a couple of college games on TV.

Among them was No. 1 Alabama winning big at Kentucky.

Miller believes that the Buckeyes can play with the Crimson Tide, the two-time defending national champions.

''When it gets to that point in the future, it'll be a good game,'' he said. ''It'll be a good matchup.''

Coach Urban Meyer also watched a couple of games on the day off and also feels the Buckeyes could hang with the county's elite.

''I think we are right there,'' he said. ''I think we are a good team, I do.''

But then he reverted to form, more concerned with what's in front of him than any possible future dates in a potential Bowl Championship Series date with the likes of Alabama or Oregon.

''Human nature is, especially when you have time on a weekend of a bye week, to watch a lot of games (to see) how you match up,'' Meyer said. ''I kind of have these mechanisms in place just to stop thinking about (that), refocus on getting first downs and stopping people because that's really not helping the cause at all.''

Linebacker Ryan Shazier went to a teammate's house in Indiana over the weekend.

''I watched a little bit of college football. I saw a lot of good teams play,'' he said. ''I feel that we can play with any of them.''

Daydreaming about playing for national championships and in other big games doesn't mean much if the Buckeyes (6-0, 2-0 Big Ten) don't keep winning.

They've won 18 times in a row - the longest streak in the nation - heading into Saturday's home game with Iowa (4-2, 1-1). But the Buckeyes aren't expecting an easy time of it against the Hawkeyes - or the remaining five unranked teams waiting in the wings.

''Everybody dogs the Big Ten about not having a bunch of ranked teams. And it's the SEC this, and the Pac-12 (that),'' Ohio State center Corey Linsley said. ''But, honest, you look at the history of Iowa and, just to name a couple of other teams, Penn State and Purdue. ... The weeks that we have taken off, we have treated those teams as what the AP treats them as and what the rest of the country treats them as non-ranked opponents, those are the weeks we get beat.

''We're not taking this week lightly and we're not going to take the next seven weeks lightly.''

His coach agrees that the Buckeyes can't waltz through the stretch run.

''We've got to find a way to win this Saturday, and it's not easy,'' Meyer said. ''We've been in here for two weeks trying to figure out how to run the ball against this defense.''

Iowa is eighth in the nation against the run, permitting just 88.5 yards a game. The Hawkeyes are the only major-college team which has yet to give up a touchdown on the ground.

For what it's worth, Iowa is also a member of the mutual admiration society.

''If you look at it, they've got a win streak that's approaching 20 games,'' Hawkeyes coach Kirk Ferentz said. ''You don't do that by accident. That requires good coaching and good players who understand you have to show up every week. They've done a great job of that now for a year-plus.''

Iowa can give a team fits, as has been the case in the last two meetings.

The Buckeyes needed overtime against a backup quarterback who was seeing his first substantial action to win 27-24 in 2009 at Ohio Stadium. They also barely hung on 20-17 in Iowa City in the most recent meeting in 2010, with the Big Ten's rotating schedule keeping the teams away from each other the past two seasons.

Miller concedes that it's hard trying to concentrate on the next opponent all the time - particularly a 17-point underdog like Iowa.

''It's not easy to go out there every Saturday and win a game, especially in the Big Ten,'' he said. ''You've got to put up big points, make big plays and stop their offense.''

[iam416]

At least when OSU beats M in a scant few weeks you'll be able to taunt Ohio State fans with the fact that "that wasn't a signature win!" That one will really sting, OP.

[whodean]

Everyone in Ohio is delusional to #1 think they will even get the chance to play Bama and #2 to think they could stand a chance.

[iam416]

I wouldn't call it delusional to think Oregon and the FSU/Clemson winner may both lose a game.

It is, of course, obviously delusional to think either of those teams would still go ahead of an undefeated OSU if they did lose.

But, what Oregon, FSU and Clemson do is beyond OSU's control. What is absolutely sane is thinking OSU will make continue it's run of dominance against M in a few weeks. Wrap yourself up in the S! E! C!, Whodean. It's all you have.

[Dr. Strangelove]

It's a lot more comforting to the emotionally weak to have 15 teams to root for instead of just one