M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[iam416]

They've refused to have Webber back on campus I believe.

Well, sort of. The NCAA ordered that M had to disassociate itself from Weber until 2013. M is simply abiding by the NCAA ruling.

Ohio State has the same thing with TP, except only 5 years.

[Optimus Prime]

That is one hell of a "ROI", who knew cash cars and courtesans would pay such dividends?

Thought it was initially limited to Tressel but obviously Gee & Smith are in on it too.

[iam416]

Incidentally, Traylor and Webber each received at least $100,000 from Martin and Fisher and the M coaching staff had a pretty clear-cut relationship with Martin. I'm not mistaken on that.

In truth, Martin was perhaps ahead of his time. He was the quintessential handler. He bought kids when they were young. He likely started giving Webber money when he was in junior high. He cultivated that relationship the entire time Webber was at Country Day. And then maintained it at M. M coaches surely knew Martin was Webber's handler. IMO, that shit is pervasive in college hoops. Martin happened to be a scumbag, but not, IMO, because he gave money to Webber or Bullock or Traylor. Webber may be a scumbag, but not because he took money from Martin when he was 14. I really can't fault poor, talented kids for taking money for nothing.

I think that happens far less in college football. There are certainly areas where it is absolutely rampant. South Florida comes to mind. But, by and large, it's a hoops thing. The talented hoops kids are easier to identify at a younger age and thus have less "risk" than a football player (Martin paid at least Webber, Traylor, Bullock -- so you can see there is still risk).

[iam416]

Thought it was initially limited to Tressel but obviously Gee & Smith are in on it too

No way. Gee and Smith don't have the acumen to run that sort of operation. If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably a mob-run affair. But Italians are in short supply in Columbus (I know, try finding an shop in this Krautfest town that properly slices prosciutto -- goddamn nightmare). So, I'm thinking either Columbians or Russians. Anywho, everyone gets their money, everyone stays quiet. Gee and Smith do their tapdance as ignorant front men. The titles keep rolling in.

UFM + Russian Mob Money = Your Worst Nightmare.

[iam416]

No suprise to OP:

http://cfn.scout.com/2/1250208.html

The NYT even weighs in on whether Ohio State's new approach to compliance is TOO MUCH:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/sports/ncaafootball/ohio-states-monitoring-of-athletes-spending-raises-privacy-concerns.html?hp&_r=1&

[hack]

they are constantly looking for the "next Bo" in a way OSU has NOT attempted to replicate Woody. Rich Rod's failure has only reinforced this belief that change is bad...

Nails it.



Mike, I appreciate your post that touched this off, but it gives me the impression that CFB is an environment in which all teams cheat equally save for Michigan that does none of it. I think there's room for grey area here, and that rules are broken at every program to varying extents. I also think there's room to espouse Michigan's way without having to go so far as to celebrate The Matriculation of William Campbell, so to speak. One of the great things about sports is competition on a level playing field. Or, with Practicegate in mind, when the sport is policed to the extent that cheating is exceptionally difficult and can't give you more than a minor, tangential advantage. College football doesn't have a good organizing body to provide that, but without question in my mind there are levels to which many teams won't stoop, and there is immense satisfaction -- IMMENSE -- when you do put it together for a season and beat all the cheaters. '97 was definitely the most satisfying championship of my life as a sports fan, and for no small part because of that.

So if you were saying that the Michigan Hubris sucks, I'm mostly there with you. I hate that they insist on tying one hand behind their back. But there are elements of this that are good. I'd rather be in this corner than in one of the many of schools that sometimes find on-the-field accomplishments purchased for them.

[Mike]

Hack, my current frustration is with the Michigan program. I'm not advocating that they cheat or that the reason we don't win every game is because everyone else is cheating more or better than we do. What upsets me is that the UM administration, IMO, does not have a killer instinct when if comes to running the football program. All Brandon cares about is asses in seats, not points on the scoreboard. I truly believe that as long as every possible ticket is sold for the next decade, Hoke can go 8-4 every year with no repercussions. To win championships in this day and age takes an almost fanatical obsession from the top down. Our top guy cares more about marketing gimmicks and being the face of the program above all else.

Take Wisconsin, for example. They started the year so horribly that they fired their O-line coach after 3 games. The result: They right the ship and go to the Rose Bowl. That's the type of thing that would NEVER happen at Michigan. Borges shouldn't even be allowed to coach the damn bowl game as far as I'm concerned. Run this bum out of town on a rail.

So is/was ohio a dirty program? Sure, 100%. Does that excuse 1-9? Absolutely goddamn NOT! The Michigan fan base (and perhaps the program as well) is too wrapped up in this notion that we simply can't compete with ohio state. We act like beating them in football is like Harvard beating Kentucky in basketball. It is a defeatist mindset that allows Michigan fans to rationalize every loss to those pricks and it overlooks that fact that for over a decade now ohio state has had better players, coaches, recruiting, and admin than Michigan and for that there is no justification.

So we can continue to bitch and moan that Clarett drove nice cars his one year on campus if that makes us feel better about ourselves. OTOH, we can remember that had Michigan scored just one goddamn TD in their 5 trips to the redzone that fateful day in 2002, Clarett wouldn't even be a footnote in the history of this rivalry. It's time for us to stop worrying about other people and get our own house in order.

[hack]

See that's the thing -- we are not far off from getting that house in order. Find a great OC and pay him at or near the top of the range, and we're absolutely good to go as long as Mattison's here. Even with how utterly terrible the offense was this year -- I don't want to know how many full halves they went without scoring a TD -- they were pretty damn close, and maybe a few bounces or breaks away from victories against two undefeated teams. With Nebraska the seeds were sown in spring, so what this should have been was a two-loss season.

All it takes is a behind-the-scenes move by Hoke to suggest his buddy find another opportunity or find more desire to spend time with his family. Give Borges an honorable discharge and Let's Fucking Go already. So frustrating!

[Mike]

I think there is a strong possibility that if we get Gardner for two more years with a real OC this team could be very good. Here's to hoping!

[lineygoblue]

As far as I know, Cam Cameron hasn't been picked up by any other team yet.

Maybe Borges goes after the bowl game and Cameron jumps back on board ...

well, I can hope can't I? ...

[hack]

For all we know, Hoke has already had this discussion. And, I agree. No matter how things go overall, the Semi-Autonomous Republic of Mattisonland is well governed and thriving. Upperclassmen for GM on that side of the ball for the first time? Not necessarily next year, but 2014 should begin a string of very memorable defenses. As long as Gardner is coached to, at some point, throw the ball away instead of up for grabs...

[geo weidl]

I wouldn't mind seeing Scott Loeffler back. Lot of good QB's went on to the nfl under him. I believe he is available.

Why are we discussing under this thread?

[The Oracle]

Good win tonight, fag, er flag.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Play like tonight on Saturday and Kansas will roll us

[The Oracle]

It might not happen Saturday, but when you only have 2.5 capable scorers on your team, it could at any point.