M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Mike]

Gotcha.

[lineygoblue]

comfort yourself with the notion of Will Campbell becoming a "Michigan Man" before he embarks on a rewarding career at an east-side Detroit car wash.

You're not even going to allow him a shot at the west side?

sheesh .. you're tough ...

[iam416]

While the bulk of the stuff from M fans is pure fantasyland (lol at the classes, line...I mean seriously...LMMF-kinesiology-AO at that)....I will continue to try provide some semblance of balance with, well, FACTS:

*Ohio State has won B10 football championships in 6 of the past 8 years. And, of course, was by far and away the best team in the league this season.

*Ohio State has won B10 regular season championships in 5 of the past 7 years. Unfortunately, I don't think they'll get to the lofty 6 of 8 football has established.

*Ohio State has won B10 tournament 3 times in the past 7 years. No other B10 school has won it more than once.

*Since 2005, Ohio State has won 11 football/basketball championships in 15 tries. Michigan State and Wisconsin are second with 4 total championships, followed by Penn State, who won 2.

*Ohio State remains the ONLY B10 schools to even play in a BCS Title game. They've done it 3 times.

*Ohio State has been to two Final Fours in the past 7 years. The rest of the B10, i.e., MSU, has been to 2.

Ohio State's dominance in the revenue sports is indisputable. Total domination.

But in non-revenue sports, Ohio State fairs nearly as well.

*Ohio State has been the highest ranked B10 school in the Sears Director's Cup 4 times since 2005 (4 out of 7).

*Ohio State has finished in the top 4 each of the past two years and hasn't been outside the top 12 in any season since 2005.

*Ohio State offers 36 varsity sports, the most in the country.

Upon further review, it seems FLAGSHIP actually doesn't come close to describing Ohio State's dominance of and importance to the B10.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Fellas, ohio fans don't give a shit if they have to get their hands dirty to win big. Frankly, I don't think they SHOULD. It's this same sanctimonious attitude that backs Michigan into a corner like a frightened turtle and produces Brady Hoke and a future that strives to replicate that last 5 years of the Carr era. Accept, adapt, and overcome the current culture of major CFB or comfort yourself with the notion of Will Campbell becoming a "Michigan Man" before he embarks on a rewarding career at an east-side Detroit car wash.

Sorry, had to be said.

Carry on.

One of the most level-headed commentaries on the sanctimonious nature of the Michigan fanbase in years on this forum. And hell, hack even admitted that "everyone" (presumably Michigan fans included) tells themselves lies to better like what they see in the mirror.

Michigan doesn't win because other teams cheat. And Michigan fans should feel they are morally superior to other human beings. Many a Michigan fan has convinced himself of the utter "truthiness" of that Washtenaw County wisdom.

I would change though that the Michigan administration is obsessed with Bo, not Lloyd. I don't want to make it out to be a HUGE obsession, but they are constantly looking for the "next Bo" in a way OSU has NOT attempted to replicate Woody. Rich Rod's failure has only reinforced this belief that change is bad, the rest of CFB is corrupt, and that Michigan should be satisfied with going 8-4. Losing becomes a virtue because it's "proof" you are running a clean program. After all, all the really good teams cheat.

Talked about this a month ago but when Michigan hired Bo, they were making a clean break from the recent past. They basically brought in a bunch of people from outside the state (from Ohio but that's irrelevant) instead of just hiring another former Crisler coach/player. I think Michigan really needs to move on from Bo and needs that sort of clean break again.

[Mike]

I'd argue that the biggest negative effect of the RichRod debacle is that it gave (and gives) the administration an excuse to never try anything bold again. Our last two coaching searches were a joke. You just don't have that kind of buffoonery in C-bus (and you have to be world-class stupid to get one-upped by Gene Smith and Co.). That is the biggest reason why UM is currently looking up at the buckeyes. Michigan, for whatever the reasons, prefers to fight with one arm tied behind its back and it is completely maddening to me. There is no comprehensible justification for it.

[iam416]

That's my outsider take on the effect of the RichGOD debacle.

I still think Hoke is good, but if I were a M fan I'd want to know they threw the bank at Harbaugh. Doesn't seem like they did.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Some probably still held a grudge for his comments about the easy courses Michigan players take

Heck, some here wanted him permanently banned from campus at the time.

[lineygoblue]

Harbaugh wanted to become a NFL coach, and he wanted to live on the west coast.

Money was not an issue. Michigan could have offered him the title to the university, and he would have still turned it down.

There may have been some animosity on both sides regarding his comments of a few years ago, but I seriously doubt that it played any role in where he ended up.

[SeattleLionsFan]

If I'm not mistaken Clarett admitted taking (being paid) 20,000 dollars by boosters as arranged by Tressel. And being kicked out of school for it. And yet that team is celebrated.

I would be mortified if I knew Michigan cheated to that extent. Shoot the only thing close was the fab five and Michigan vacated those wins, cratered the program and to this day refuse to have those guys on campus.

Jim Tressel on the other hand gets carried off the field. I guess we know the price for a buckeyes integrity.

[SeattleLionsFan]

And for the record, I'd much rather the program turned out men of great character than great football players (although there is no reason the two should be mutually exclusive).

Very few will be football players after leaving Ann Arbor. They will all be men.

[Mike]

...and to this day refuse to have those guys on campus.

I've been to exactly one Michigan bball game in my life and it was "Jalen Rose" day about 5 years ago (we beat Illinois 43-41 in a game that set the sport back decades). Jimmy King sat next to Jalen at center court. The only player from the Fab Five who is not welcome back on campus is Chris Webber - the only player from that team who was in business with Ed Martin. The bulk of the scandal arose from mid to late 90s players like Traylor, Bullock, Taylor, etc. I hate to nit-pick but I like the record straight on this issue... and I don't mind going off-topic in this shitball thread to do it.

[Mike]

That's my outsider take on the effect of the RichGOD debacle.

I still think Hoke is good, but if I were a M fan I'd want to know they threw the bank at Harbaugh. Doesn't seem like they did.

I don't think they did either. While Harbaugh ultimately wants to be an NFL coach, he might have been brought into the fold with the right approach. Diamond Dave's "Hi, I'm-awesome-and-the-line-to-kiss-my-ass-forms-to-the-left" approach probably didn't jive with JH. Just a hunch. And then you had Les Miles left twisting in the wind over some sore feelings from 3 decades ago. Here's a thought: Get the fuck over it!! My god, a Harbaugh/Mattison tandem would have been a Sabanesque Death Star ruling the galaxy with an iron fist.

Instead, we have ADs that think it's more important to go sailing or plan the next uniform abomination while scheming to further extort season ticket holders than to do everything in their power to actually dominate on the football field. Instead, we got "All that glitters is not gold".

Now, to be fair, I'm not selling Hoke down the river. Yet. The guy obviously can recruit and is a good face for the program. He is well liked and is still so popular in SD that he does periodic phone interviews on the local sports radio shows out here. The telling sign will be whether he has the cajones to whack Al Borges and hire a competent OC. He doesn't strike me as a very hands-on head coach - especially with the offense - so he needs the best coaches possible around him to make him look good.

[The Oracle]

Feel free. This is a great place to shit in.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Sorry Mike. They've refused to have Webber back on campus I believe. I am pretty sure they have refused to hang banners and moreover the rest of the points stand.

[iam416]

If I'm not mistaken Clarett admitted taking (being paid) 20,000 dollars by boosters as arranged by Tressel. And being kicked out of school for it.

LMAO. You are, of course, mistaken. That should come as little surprise to anyone who has endured your posts.

Here is what actual facts look like:

*Ohio State has won B10 football championships in 6 of the past 8 years. And, of course, was by far and away the best team in the league this season.

*Ohio State has won B10 regular season championships in 5 of the past 7 years. Unfortunately, I don't think they'll get to the lofty 6 of 8 football has established.

*Ohio State has won B10 tournament 3 times in the past 7 years. No other B10 school has won it more than once.

*Since 2005, Ohio State has won 11 football/basketball championships in 15 tries. Michigan State and Wisconsin are second with 4 total championships, followed by Penn State, who won 2.

*Ohio State remains the ONLY B10 schools to even play in a BCS Title game. They've done it 3 times.

*Ohio State has been to two Final Fours in the past 7 years. The rest of the B10, i.e., MSU, has been to 2.

Ohio State's dominance in the revenue sports is indisputable. Total domination.

But in non-revenue sports, Ohio State fairs nearly as well.

*Ohio State has been the highest ranked B10 school in the Sears Director's Cup 4 times since 2005 (4 out of 7).

*Ohio State has finished in the top 4 each of the past two years and hasn't been outside the top 12 in any season since 2005.

*Ohio State offers 36 varsity sports, the most in the country.