M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[iam416]

Also of potential interest, a decent breakdown of OSU's offensive progression through the season: http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2012/1...fensive-scheme

....and OSU's defensive progression: http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2012/1...fensive-scheme

[SeattleLionsFan]

Honest question you don't seem to disagree that OSU cheats. Do you care that they cheat? Honestly, do you see it as a problem or is just the way things are done to you?

[iam416]

That's not an "honest" question. There's a presumption to it that you and I massively disagree about (as has been discussed at length in various forms and won't be again). I'll give you the answer I've given before.


I am not bothered, at all, by kids trading their own stuff for tattoos. There is absolutely nothing immoral or wrong with selling your stuff. Nor do I believe that trading their own stuff for tattoos provided OSU, in any way, a competitive on-the-field advantage.

I am not bothered by $100 handshakes. I think those happen everywhere, including your beloved suckass program. But, again, I don't think those things offer a competitive on-the-field advantage.

As for Coach Tressel's failure to forward an e-mail, he obviously should have handled that differently and he paid a huge price for it. Generally, I don't judge anyone by a single bad decision, but rather by the body of their work.

Two things bother me. First, buying recruits. That's a competitive advantage. Second, academic fraud. That's counter the fundamental goal and purpose of an University. All FBS programs baby their revenue athletes. They ALL let in kids who couldn't dream of getting in if they weren't a ball player (hell, they do it in the Ivy League, too). All FBS programs have some sort of preferred curriculum for their ball players. I know that. Regardless, I think it's incumbent upon the University to use its best efforts to provide that free education. Nearly all of those players won't make a living playing football.

But, no, selling your own stuff or having someone buy you a drink after a game or a dinner or give you $50 -- not a lick.

And that's all I have to say on it.

[iam416]

In any event, Tressel's failure meant that Ohio State had to hire UFM. Standard FLAGSHIP move.

An interesting question for OSU fans is would they trade the dark year of 2011, including the horrific loss to M, for the UFM Era. I'm firmly in the HELL F'N YES category. I think most OSU fans are there, too.

The interesting thing about UFM and Hoke is that they've had similar stops. Both started in the MAC and both moved to the MWC. UFM, of course, so successful that he managed to get the Florida job before coming to the B10.

In 10 seasons, Coach Hoke is 66-56 with 1 division championship and 0 conference titles. In the only CCG he coached in, he was humiliated. In 2 of his 10 seasons, he's managed to lose less than 4 games.

In 11 seasons, Coach UFM is 116-23, with 4 division championships, 4 conference titles and 2 BCS titles. He is 2-1 in CCGs. 5 of his 11 teams have gone 12-0 or 13-1.

It's a great time to be the FLAGSHIP.

[lineygoblue]

I am not bothered, at all, by kids trading their own stuff for tattoos. There is absolutely nothing immoral or wrong with selling your stuff. Nor do I believe that trading their own stuff for tattoos provided OSU, in any way, a competitive on-the-field advantage.

Their own stuff included the gold pants that ohio players are given, when they beat Michigan. I wonder how many ohio players from the John Cooper era would have given their right arms, to have those gold pants? Their own stuff also included jerseys, helmets and other property that belonged to the athletic department. There are rules against this. In ohio, they believe they are above the rules. Therefore, Mr Talent's response is no surprise.

I am not bothered by $100 handshakes. I think those happen everywhere, including your beloved suckass program. But, again, I don't think those things offer a competitive on-the-field advantage.

And again, there are rules against $100 handshakes. I have no evidence that they happen in ohio, Michigan, or any other state. If they do, they are violating the rules. If Mr. Talent has evidence that they are occurring in Michigan, then I'd like to see him take his evidence to the NCAA so that they can enforce the rules against such practices.

As for Coach Tressel's failure to forward an e-mail, he obviously should have handled that differently and he paid a huge price for it. Generally, I don't judge anyone by a single bad decision, but rather by the body of their work.

And finally, it was not as simple as a failure to forward an e-mail. There were lies and deception to the NCAA as they attempted to investigate the matter. Had Coach Tressel came clean about the matter, instead of attempting to cover it up, he might still be coaching at ohio today. Of course, this would infuriate Mr. Talent, because that would mean that the mighty Urban would still be occupying a spot in the broadcast booth, instead of wandering the ohio sideline.

So the basic premise is, ohio believes that walking the rules tightrope is fine. If the school is caught cheating, its only a minor irritation, as long as the victories on the field keep piling up.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Two things bother me. First, buying recruits. That's a competitive advantage. Second, academic fraud. That's counter the fundamental goal and purpose of an University.

Uh....sounds like SOP in the SEC...

[lineygoblue]

Uh....sounds like SOP in the SEC...

It is. And, as long as the media and fans continue to glamorize the SEC as the 'cat's meow' of college football, nothing will be done about it.

[iam416]

In ohio, they believe they are above the rules.

Well, except when they self-report the rules violations. But, sure. LOL.

As for the rest, lol, it's been dealt with numerous times.

But this is where M is -- they KNOW Ohio State is vastly superior. They KNOW it ain't going to change. So the best they can do is rationalize their acceptance of the FLAGSHIP -- "We'd beat 'em if they didn't let players sell their owns stuff!" -- LOL.

It's good to be king.

[lineygoblue]

You can believe that if you like. However, in spite of your pomposity, I suspect that your remarks are more along the lines of whistling past the graveyard, than rooted in fact.

Right and wrong is not determined by the numbers on a scoreboard. Someday, your team will have to deal with that. Vast superiority, flagship, or not.

[iam416]

Right and wrong is not determined by the numbers on a scoreboard.

Nor is it by arbitrary NCAA rules like, e.g., practice time and such.

But to the scoreboard point, M fans are almost at the stage where scoreboard doesn't matter at all, it's about the "michigan" way or some such nonsense. I can't tell you how much I enjoy those rationalizations -- a complete capitulation and acceptance of the order.

[Optimus Prime]

Keep up the good work.

Regarding the Bowl pool tie breaker, the U/O is 41.5, do we predict the final score combined? The pool allows us to select a positive integer between 10-200.

[iam416]

It's just the total score.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Let's see St. Urban in Year 2 before we start naming B1G Awards after him...

[THE_WIZARD_]

Didn't the flagship go 6-6 last year?

[iam416]

Let's see St. Urban in Year 2 before we start naming B1G Awards after him...

It will actually be Year 12 for UFM as a Head Coach. I've detailed his accomplishments already, which I think are sufficient to warrant heaps of praise. However, if you want to wait until after next season to say whether UFM is the goods or not, feel free.

Me? I'm convinced with an undefeated season at Utah, 2 BCS titles at Florida and an undefeated season at Ohio State. Seems like he does a good job wherever he is. But, you could be right. He could be a flash in the pan.

BTW, Ohio State's schedule for 2013:

Buffalo
San Diego State
@ California
Florida A&M
Wisconsin
@ Northwestern
Iowa
Penn State
@ Purdue
@ Illinois
Indiana
@ Michigan

Murderer's row!