M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[entropy]

U. Meyer to clean up OSU

[Hannibal]

If any sanctions come, I think that it's very unlikely that Urban Meyer goes to OSU. Meyer looked really burned out last year, and the last thing that he's going to want is to take over a program on probation where expectations might be unrealistic. I think that it's more likely that someone from the OSU coaching tree comes in. Whoever it is has a big uphill battle to win the hearts of Buckeye fans. You can't do much better in the W/L columns than Tressel.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I think what is really annoying to you ,and probably a number of other Buckfans, is that many here are invalidating the Tressel era based on these findings. I think that is hard to accept, because the reality is that Tressel probably didn't need to cheat. Carr was fading fast, and RichRod never understood what it takes to win in the Big10 --- with the natural advantages O-state has, Tressel could have dominated anyways. ....... although the Sweater-gate casts a bad light on the rivalry, it doesn't eliminate the suckage (most years) that was M football over the past decade.

...... but he did cheat. He CHOSE to cheat instead of coach with integrity and there are indications he has cheated for years.

The most recent revelations regarding jim tressel involve top players that he was coaching who received illegal benefits who should have been ineligible for the entire 2010 season but instead played in it and then, in a stunningly arrogant way indicating jt probably thought he could get away with it because he had avoided accountability for his cheating in the past, talked the NCAA into letting these same ineligible players play in the 2011 Sugar Bowl and serve out their suspensions the following season.

Arrogance will do that and it is contemptuous beyond any reasonable explanation.

Does it erase tressel's wins over the Michigan football team since 2001? No ......not any more than the sex scandals of the Catholic Priest hood invalidates the teachings of the Christianity and the Catholic Church.

But like the Catholic Church, osu is going to have to deal with the damage jim tressel has done to its image. One has to ask, how much damage has he actually done? MoC was on the take; of that I have absolutely no doubt. Did tressel know? Probably, if his current behavior is any indication of that. How may others were getting paid to play creating additional competitive advantages for osu on the filed and in recruiting? Do those considerations if they prove to be accurate invalidate coach tressel's entire win record? I think they do and by extension his wins against Michigan.

This fact is no trivial or hyperbolic comparison. It is precisely where osu is right now and like the Church, which for years concealed child abuse and denied anything was wrong, osu officials are going to be hammered by the press and Michigan fans about jt's lying, playing ineligible players and gaining a competitive advantage by doing so.

Did Chris Webber's lying to Federal Investigators invalidate the accomplishments of the Fab Five? Well, yes ......Michigan forfeited its victory in the 1992 Final Four over Cincinnati, as well as its runner-up status in the 1992 tourney. Michigan also forfeited the entire 1992–93 season, removed the 1992 and 1993 Final Four banners from the Crisler Arena rafters, and deleted Webber's records from its record books.

Depending on what comes out of the NCAA's investigation of osu, I can see entire seasons, where jim tressel coached, forfeited. While that would not mean that M won those game, it would mean that osu didn't win them either. As far as I am concerned and regardless of what the NCAA does in this embarrassing mess for the B10 and CFB, osu no longer belongs among teams who have garnered respect through their traditions of winning college football.

[entropy]

If any sanctions come, I think that it's very unlikely that Urban Meyer goes to OSU. Meyer looked really burned out last year, and the last thing that he's going to want is to take over a program on probation where expectations might be unrealistic. I think that it's more likely that someone from the OSU coaching tree comes in. Whoever it is has a big uphill battle to win the hearts of Buckeye fans. You can't do much better in the W/L columns than Tressel.

look at tony g's note

[entropy]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/2011/04/anti-jim-tressel-t-shirt-causes-quite-the-stir.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

[Jamie H]

I think someone brought up a very good point. The actual act of selling team stuff for tatoos is relatively minor, and actually completely irrelevant to what is going on. Every program has kids that will do bad stuff. Sometimes that stuff is against the law, sometimes it is against NCAA rules.

The real issue is that the program is responsible for handling the misdeeds of the kids. In cases where the law is involved there is a lot of latitude. But in cases where the NCAA is involved, the rules are pretty clear. If you know of an NCAA violation you have to report it.

For Tressel to be made aware of NCAA violations by his players and decide not only to not report it, but to then subsequently LIE to the NCAA about it is what this is all about. At the point where you are lying to the NCAA to maintain the eligibility of players that you either know or strongly suspect are ineligible, you have stepped off of the cliff. The problem is in the non-denyability of the situation. If Tressel could claim he had no idea this was happening, well then you suspend the kids now and it's over. But the fact that he KNEW about this and covered it up, THAT is a total lack of institutional control.

So as others have summed up, the player actions were not a big deal for the school or Tressel outside of whatever punishments the players would have received for it. It was the willful (and apparently repeated) act to deceive the NCAA that is going to cause the problems here.

[lineygoblue]

Heh ... I ordered one of those Tressel shirts

[WingsFan]

And even if we're hit by USC-style sanctions, as already mentioned, the Trojans are alive and well.

They are? How? They have been 5-4 in the Pac 10 the last two years. That's what you would like tosu to be in the Big Ten? Fine with me. Are you basing that Lane had a high ranked recruiting and number this year? A signing class of single digits next year when sanctions kick in is not out of the realm of possibilities. Lane haven't done anything , besides pull in a high ranked recruiting class before the hammer comes down the next 3 years.

[lineygoblue]

USC hasn't even begun to feel the sanctions yet. At the end of it all, they will have missed out on 30 ballplayers. That is a major shortcoming for ANY school to overcome. Even the mighty schmucknuts.

And if OhNo fans want to see their beloved school patterned after USC, then its fine with me. More sanctions will follow accordingly.

[WM Wolverine]

Reduction is 10 scholarships a year which really only comes out to 10 scholarships total from this recruiting class. It'll only really hurt them when this class is juniors and seniors; circa 2014-2015.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Yeah, OSU has damaged the pristine image of the Big Ten. Let's get off that high horse a bit and recognize that pretty much every school has dealt with a serious scandal in the past 25 years or so. Maybe not football in every case.

Indiana. Kelvin Sampson. Enough said.

Minnesota. Clem Haskins. Enough Said.

Northwestern. Point shaving during the 90's. Enough said.

Michigan. Booster paying players. Two Final Fours vacated.

Wisconsin. Nice discount on shoes. Found guilty of major violations three times in multiple sports from 1993 to 2001

Michigan State. Academic fraud and payments to players that led to George Perles being fired.

Illinois. Since 1980 they've been on probation four times thanks to their football program. Twice they were given bowl bans.

I think Iowa's been relatively clean but I don't know what you'd say about their players running a drug ring...I think they've had more arrests by far over the past few years than any other Big10 school.

A certain well-respected former Penn State coach may, in fact, be a pedophile. How's that for harming Big10 image?

[Jeff Buchanan]

DSL .... all of CFB, since the late 1800s, has suffered embarrassment as a result of scandal. You guys are great at discussing time frames that advance the osu view of college sports .... one where osu dominates and factors always mitigate tressel's obscenities.

The era in question is the current one and specifically the era of jim tressel. That goes back a decade. We're not discussing or complaining about what went on 25 or more years ago, we are discussing what has gone on in the last year and going back to the beginning of tressel's tenure as osu's head football coach.

25 years ago, if the record is an indicator, earl bruce and john cooper were''t lying to the NCAA and, as far as I can tell weren't playing ineligible players and concealing rule breaking to gain a competitive advantage for osu. Woody never did that and, I believe, would have personally kicked the shit out of any player who cheated or outsider that paid players ..... ohio state WAS a righteous if not hated adversary.

No more.

So, yeah, there have been misdeeds throughout the history of B10 sports, Michigan basketball being among the worst. But in the osu sports world of today where its fans cling to osu football like it is the only true religion and advance that religion with the same imbecilic passion of the worst of the world's religious zealots, when the Pope is shown to be a cheat and a liar, it makes it hard to advance that religion as anything at all worth while. That's our point.

[WM Wolverine]

Back to USC; with their expected 'tiny' '12 recruiting class, expect to see Miles/Saban type ways of creating attrition by Kiffin to open up scholarships.

[Dr. Strangelove]

DSL .... all of CFB, since the late 1800s, has suffered embarrassment as a result of scandal. You guys are great at discussing time frames that advance the osu view of college sports .... one where osu dominates and factors always mitigate tressel's obscenities.

The era in question is the current one and specifically the era of jim tressel. That goes back a decade. We're not discussing or complaining about what went on 25 or more years ago, we are discussing what has gone on in the last year and going back to the beginning of tressel's tenure as osu's head football coach.

25 years ago, if the record is an indicator, earl bruce and john cooper were''t lying to the NCAA and, as far as I can tell weren't playing ineligible players and concealing rule breaking to gain a competitive advantage for osu. Woody never did that and, I believe, would have personally kicked the shit out of any player who cheated or outsider that paid players ..... ohio state WAS a righteous if not hated adversary.

No more.

So, yeah, there have been misdeeds throughout the history of B10 sports, Michigan basketball being among the worst. But in the osu sports world of today where its fans cling to osu football like it is the only true religion and advance that religion with the same imbecilic passion of the worst of the world's religious zealots, when the Pope is shown to be a cheat and a liar, it makes it hard to advance that religion as anything at all worth while. That's our point.

The question here is whether Tressel's sins are uniquely embarrassing to the Big Ten and I think I fairly well demonstrated that they are not.

But yeah, if you want to restrict the time frame to only the past several months, then sure, OSU has brought the conference to new lows. Far lower than the massive academic fraud going on at Minnesota, the pay-for-play in Michigan bball, or the point shaving at Northwestern.

Tressel lied or at least kept quiet about a fairly minor offense. I leave it up to you to declare it the worst thing a coach around the Big10 has ever done.

[Dr. Strangelove]

They are? How? They have been 5-4 in the Pac 10 the last two years. That's what you would like tosu to be in the Big Ten? Fine with me. Are you basing that Lane had a high ranked recruiting and number this year? A signing class of single digits next year when sanctions kick in is not out of the realm of possibilities. Lane haven't done anything , besides pull in a high ranked recruiting class before the hammer comes down the next 3 years.

If going 9-4 or 8-5 is the worst we go through due to the "NCAA laying the hammer down" then I can live with that. If 8-5 is bottoming out then that's a lot better than 3-9, which Michigan accomplished without NCAA assistance.