M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[iam416]

I'll believe Hoke is what some think he is when he gets a streak going again against osu.

Thus, the jury is still out until around 6PM, the 24th of November, 2012.

One thing I will give HokeMattison credit for now is their potential for landing some big time recruits going forward. If the turnaround from 2010 to 11 with respect to player performance is an indicator, the entire staff has the ability to motivate and develop players far exceeding anything M has had in a decade, maybe more.

There is definitely cause for optimism for you guys, Buchanan. If Shane Morris can live up to billing, M should be strong for awhile -- with maybe one hiccup year in 2013.

[hack]

Agreed that the sudden demonization is silly. Had Michigan been smart enough to play to win all these years in a way consistent with its values, Meyer could very possibly have been our coach a few years ago given that old clause in his Utah contract. We here would have been as delighted as can be.

But not even Meyer is going to be enough to save Ohio from its rotten, inferior, depraved core. Meyer at Michigan perhaps could have saved him from the reputation he'll end up with Ohio, but that is now his problem and not Michigan's.

[Jeff Buchanan]

But not even Meyer is going to be enough to save Ohio from its rotten, inferior, depraved core. Meyer at Michigan perhaps could have saved him from the reputation he'll end up with Ohio, but that is now his problem and not Michigan's.

I think there's some truth in that.

As much as our osu friends want to think the horror of the last year has been erased with the coming of the messiah, I don't think it has been. There's going to be some lasting effects, not the least of which will be the endless mealy mouthed commentary about tressel, pryor, furbin, cash for cars, tats for gear, scholarship losses, bowl bans, etc. coming from the sports press during every televised game osu plays. Grist for the glory of osu. A TV ban may not have been a bad thing. Heh.

Second, one of the things that made osu football good was the continuity of the coaching staff. It helped recruiting, it helped player development, it helped game performance ..... not to mention, tressel was a terrific coach. I don't think Meyer is that great; good but not great for a number of reasons that is a another discussion (and I'm not demonizing him here, just being realistic.

The numbers demonstrate coaching changes wreak havoc on CFB teams. M's experience with Hoke is NOT THE NORM. It's probably 2 std. deviations outside of it .... at least. I'm expecting some disappointments going forward for the osu fan base and some real blow-ups from turbin going forward as expectations are not met.

It'll be fun.

[hack]

I'll believe Hoke is what some think he is when he gets a streak going again against osu.


Damn well better be or there are a bunch of former participants in the program who need to be privately shamed and told to STFU.

I at this point am refusing to ponder the notion that he's not. And, yes, he needs to pull out a win next November. I'm not expecting him to have a Tressell-like run of dominance. He doesn't cheat. I'll take 4-4 or 5-3 over the rest of the decade. But not 3-5.

[hack]

Yes, it'll be fun. And it will be Hoke & Co.'s job to find the right words to explain to recruits the difference between the two programs. And it will also be Michigan's job to make sure that negative-attention scenario you describe is the case. People have amazingly short memories, so lots of reminders will be needed.

[iam416]

Second, one of the things that made osu football good was the continuity of the coaching staff. It helped recruiting, it helped player development, it helped game performance ..... not to mention, tressel was a terrific coach.

That's true. It will be difficult for UFM to match Coach Tressel's success. That said, UFM will be around for awhile.

The numbers demonstrate coaching changes wreak havoc on CFB teams. M's experience with Hoke is NOT THE NORM. It's probably 2 std. deviations outside of it .... at least. I'm expecting some disappointments going forward for the osu fan base and some real blow-ups from turbin going forward as expectations are not met.

OSU will improve at least as much in UFM's first year as M did under Hoke. Frankly, I think they will improve MORE. And for 2013.....look out. That's a roster-based conclusion. Look out.

[Tony G]

I think the future of Michigan football under Coach Hoke is in the best hands its been in since Schembechler retired, and for me, that's very exciting.

Say what you will about Lloyd but he did bring home a Mythical National Championship. This is more than Bo or anyone else has done. Hoke has brought the team back to being competitive in the conference. Can he sustain that level and take up a notch to compete for the MNC? We'll see.

[hack]

There were two Lloyds. I don't know where Lloyd I went. I suspect into hiding in around 1999, because, somewhat admirably, Lloyd II came to understand the costs of competition on this level. But I sure do miss him.

[SeanB]

Question for you talent...

Who WAS Smith's first choice? I don't remember hearing or seeing anything, but I was knee deep in the arrival of twins, so it's quite possible I spaced on it.

And just to poke fun at my Dad, I do remember a certain "avatar" you had back at WC for many months. I'm sure you do, too!

Like it was stated upthread....about 4 years or so ago, many of us would have been thrilled to have Meyer sign on as M's coach, though there were some there at the old WC site that had reservations about him even then (just like Rodriguez). Urban is a good football coach. I'm very interested to see how his style translates to Big10 play.

[Jamie H]

It must really gall Ohio fans to have Tressell exposed as the lying cheating scumbag that everyone else knew he was. How many coaches in NCAA history have gotten a 5-year show cause penalty? I imagine Tressell must be in a pretty select group for that one. Even Cheatin' Pete at USC didn't get that.

[Jeff Buchanan]

And just to poke fun at my Dad, I do remember a certain "avatar" you had back at WC for many months. I'm sure you do, too!

..... I also recall taking that down after I recovered from my short bout of hatelloyditis.

I like turbin. Thought he did a great job at both Utah and UF. Love his offenses. He's volatile though and that can be a drawback. He sucks with the press when he's losing. He's also all about meyer. tressel was none of those things. That's a significant difference.

I'm very interested to see how his style translates to Big10 play.

Frankly, I think concerns regarding the spread and urban's version of it are overblown and amount to wishful thinking on the part of fans of teams that will go against his offense at osu, hoping urban's spread will do as poorly as Purdue's does consistently and M's short try at it did.

Purdue's spread is inconsistent because of the talent gap. M's spread worked pretty darn well after a couple of years, a terrific QB, and we all know what the problems were during RR's tenure on defense and special teams (and the little things too) ...... the read option spread seems to work fine against most defenses except the elite ones with first round draft pick type LBs and Ss. So will urban's brand of the spread (which in my mind is more of a pro-style spread). Clearly the best thing turbin has going for him is braxton miller and a solid running game. He could have used Kalis though .... heh. He also will have the talent on defense he needs. If his staff can put it all together, no problems winning in the B10. He also has a clear path to the B10 Championship game for the next 3-5 years at least (except in year one so, he has a built in excuse) ..... until PSU gets back in it (if they ever do) and Wisconsin finds a QB.

[Rocky Bleier]

Where's the flagship?

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20111227/SPORTS0201/112270380/Michigan-football-program-fifth-most-valuable-nation-Forbes-says?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Sports|p

[lineygoblue]

I still think Meyer's biggest problem will be his staying power. His record isn't too good in that department. 2 years at Bowling Green, 2 at Utah, and 5 at Florida. If he is OlieO's HC for Game 1 of 2017, that will be the longest he's been at one place in his entire career. We'll see if that works out.

I think we're entering a time frame where neither team is going to dominate the other. I think we'll see both teams hold serve with their home games. I doubt that we'll see very many, if any, visiting teams win the matchups.

But again, we'll see.

[iam416]

Who WAS Smith's first choice? I don't remember hearing or seeing anything, but I was knee deep in the arrival of twins, so it's quite possible I spaced on it.

It was never public, but from I've read from folks who seem to know, it was Pelini.

2 years at Bowling Green, 2 at Utah, and 5 at Florida.

That's 9 straight years of coaching with natural moves up. I think he was burnt out by the end of that stretch. There is no "up" move for him at Ohio State. If he can replicate what he did before, he'll be in Columbus for 9 years. I'll take it. Personally, I think he'll be there longer. We'll see.

[lineygoblue]

Before his "9" years as a head coach, he was:

The DB coach at St. Xavier HS for one year. (1985)
The TE/WR coach at OlieO for 2 years. (86-87)
OLB/QB/WR coach at Illinois State (88-89)
WR coach at Colorado State (1990-95) his longest stint pre-Florida
WR coach at Notre Dame (96-2000)
Then he moved on to HC at Bowling Green.

So, again. The man moves around a lot. There is still a question of his health issues, and also of his family issues. He says they are all resolved. Many close to him say they are at best, temporarily resolved. Again, we'll see.

As for Coach Meyer's abilities? I think he's a very good football coach. I don't see him in the same mold as Woody, Bo, Ara, Bear Bryant, etc. I think he'll probably be OlieO's Lloyd Carr. He will do well at times, and at other times, he'll have you guys shaking your heads wondering what he was thinking.

A big problem for most OlieO fans will be coming to grips with the fact that the Tressel years are over.