M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Hannibal]

Heh -- not so confident in a victory this November anymore? It was only about four or five months ago you guys were predicting yet another easy one.

Speaking of praying -- you better pray that ESPN doesn't win its lawsuit against OSU and make those Tressel e-mails to Ted Sarniak public, or that an FOIA request doesn't find some suspicious e-mails between Tressel and this DeGeronimo guy. Half the stones haven't been overturned yet. You also better pray that the rumor that it was Pryor who turned in the latest round of OSU players is false. Because if it's not, that means he has probably confirmed a lot of the other shenanigans, like his trips to the country club with Dennis Talbott, which allegedly (and almost certainly) included Thaddeus Gibson.

[iam416]

I've seen our offense.

[Optimus Prime]

Provided Robinson is reasonably healthly, Michigan beats OSU on the 26th...good triumphs evil every time.

[whodean]

Didn't you hear? This year doesn't matter to OlieO fans, but just you wait for next year!

[Optimus Prime]

With their "Rich-Rod-Lite" at the helm, I like our chances!

[iam416]

good triumphs evil every time

I don't know about every time, but it seems to have been winning at about a 90% clip over the past 10 years. Unfortunately, it's a down year for good.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Every year is a down year for good in Columbus.

[Rocky Bleier]

I don't believe that Urban Meyer's players at Florida got in trouble for selling memorabilia. Their crimes were more criminal. So, yes, he would fit in because he would recruit the same type of athlete and he would turn a blind eye to their wrongdoing. Didn't you come back merely to say you were leaving?

[Hannibal]

If we win The Game this year, I wouldn't chalk up 2012 in the win column for the Buckeyes. We lose Molk from this year's team but the Bucks lose Brewster, and given the meh O-line development in Columbus as of late and the solid performances by Khoury when he has been playing, I like our chances at filling that hole better than OSU's. We also lose Huyge, who is solid but replaceable. Schofield might turn out to be a better RT. The guards will have another year under their belt in the new system and to date they have been the less dominant spots on the OL. We lose Hemmingway, but we get Stonum back, along with probably a couple of highly talented true freshmen. On defense, we lose Martin and van Bergen. The Martin loss really hurts, but that's basically it. The entire two-deep for the LBs and safeties returns other than Woolfolk, who has been maybe our fourth best corner this year. The two weak spots on defense (Will and SAM) both have playmakers that just need experience, and they'll have it. And we'll be adding what is far and away the best recruiting class in the Big Ten.

I'm liking our 2012 team a lot better now than I did a few months ago. The DBs are playing miles above expectations, the linebackers are showing some talent, and a few underclassmen have shown up on offense who hadn't done anything to this point (Gallon, Fitz, Schofield). We'll be razor thin and highly exposed to injury, but I'm not expecting the huge step backwards that I was previously. We might even be better.

[Pasadena Blue]

Martin is the big and difficult to replace loss. Wish Danny O'Brien hadn't been turned by the Vols.

[Rocky Bleier]

Word is that M passed on O'Brien.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Talent .... you are the classic rationalizer.

I agree with you that the NCAA rule book is a disaster of epic proportions. It is nearly impossible to comply with all the stupid rules contained in it. It is a perfect example of the notion that more regulation produces nothing more than more rule breaking and rarely induces the intended behavior for which the rule was written.

OK ..... so now that we've dispensed with that, we may have a fundamental disagreement over the status of college athletes. I don't think you believe they should be held to standards that typically define that term. Therefore, you seem to be arguing, the rule breaking for which osu has been taken to task for are silly, unworthy of casting the pal that this rule breaking has cast on osu football.

That's fine, but the rules that currently govern college sports specifically prohibit the receipt of inappropriate benefits. I don't think it means a wit that college players have been getting paid under the table for decades. It was against the rules then and it is against the rules now.

There are less than a handful of programs that are in hot water right now with the NCAA over players receiving inappropriate benefits. osu is one of the programs. That means that there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 football programs who aren't getting caught because of flagrant rule breaking or are actually in full compliance with the rules. These schools, seem, somehow to keep their players from taking money from supporters of the program while osu seems unable to do that.

Why is this? My theory is that it is because there is an atmosphere of compliance. There is a culture of integrity that is developed by adults within the program acting with integrity. Kids are taught to follow the rules; the of culture of integrity present then is more than a charade like I think it was and still is at osu. Reporting, as you want to always point to as a demonstration of osu's high standards, is meaningless in the context of repeated rule breaking whether you happen to agree with the rules or not.

While I will acknowledge my conclusions about tressel, smith, gee and the culture inside osu are based more on circumstances and less on the basis of facts, the logic by which I arrive at those conclusions is not nearly as unsound as you want to make it. Your dismissive of what is staring you straight in the face - swirling questions of culture, integrity, collusion and so forth - is startling but not altogether unexpected of a fan blinded by his own faith in what osu stands for.

Moreover, questions about integrity usually aren't founded on factual evidence. They are founded on observations of behavior. You cannot escape the overwhelming amount of rule breaking behavior among players - no matter how inconsequential you consider it - and lying on the part of osu's head coach. You have even tried to minimize tressel's lies by repeatedly writing here ....... it's one mistake. The implication is that there is nothing more to see here and one poor choice should not entirely discredit jim tressel's body of work. I could accept this if it were not for my suspicion that he is a liar who cleverly tried to hide that aspect of his character in the book he wrote.

The assumption that tressel lied just once, gene smith and gordon gee knew nothing about the extent of the rule breaking by players, knew nothing about coach tressel's cover-up, knew noting about the tat5 being ineligible for the BCS Bowl that they played in, never colluded to hide the truth by having discussions about how to limit the damage rather than figure out better ways to stop players from breaking the rules is simply not believable. The reason for that is the circumstantial evidence, the observations of behavior do not support the conclusion that osu operates it's football program with integrity and in accordance with the rules.

Its your choice to continue to dismiss what most of us here think is a rotten program, certainly with bias, but not without good reason. Maybe others will, but I'm not going to let you escape our scorn for your undying support of the rottenness along with a ton of unmitigated shit thrown our way for as long as I can remember. Good hearted, some of it, but nevertheless something that I am now gleefully hurling back your way.

[iam416]

That means that there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 football programs who aren't getting caught because of flagrant rule breaking or are actually in full compliance with the rules.

There are ZERO, let me reiterate, ZERO programs "actually in full compliance with rules." Any discussion premsied on the assumptiont that there are is epically stupid. And yet, your discussion is.

Let me put it to you this way, in 2007 and 2008 and 2009, Ohio State was not one of those programs in hot water with the NCAA. In fact, nothing -- zero of this, other than the innocuous Tat5 stuff -- would have come to light if Ohio State didn't self-report. But think about that Buchanan - the program you heap gads of inane hyperbole upon now, was "clean" in the eyes of the NCAA. Get real.

I'll repeat this for you -- there is not a single program in "full comliance with the NCAA rules" -- there are only programs that don't get caught. So the rest of your self-serving, pie-in-the-sky bullshit about the "culture of compliance" isn't even worth reading. But let be crystal clear (because I know you'll misconstrue it if I don't make it absolutely clear) -- the fact that everyone does it isn't a defense for OSU. However, the fact that everyone does is absolutely relevant to your utterly assinine suggestion that any program is "in compliance with the rules" and is absolutely relevant to your "culture of compliance" horseshit.

The assumption that tressel lied just once, gene smith and gordon gee knew nothing about the extent of the rule breaking by players, knew nothing about coach tressel's cover-up, knew noting about the tat5 being ineligible for the BCS Bowl that they played in, never colluded to hide the truth by having discussions about how to limit the damage rather than figure out better ways to stop players from breaking the rules is simply not believable.

I've addressed this so many times, it's not worth doing again. But it's delusional. You have never, ever, ever, ever explained how a program that apparently wants to cover everything up -- from Gordon Gee down to the lowest athletic trainer -- SELF FUCKING REPORTS THEIR LEGENDARY COACH. You have never, ever, never, ever, ever, ever, ever explained that. EVER. NEVER. NEVER. And yet, you continue with your gross conspiratorial bullshit and expect me to respond to the same jackassery every time you feel like typing the same shit. Grow up.

And that's why I'm done discussing this with you. Period. Forever.

I'll happily leave this shithole if you guys want -- but I think you'd rather have me stick around for this year's version of the game. As I mentioned, because I got in 10 years of ass-kicking and total ownage, I'm willing to oblige M's brief respite from the status quo.

[Rocky Bleier]

Buchanan draws you out again. I know Liney doesn't kick people out, but you are free to leave.

[iam416]

Buchanan begs for my attention, as will a half a dozen more of you in response to that post. Clockwork.

As for leaving -- ask me. I'm only staying for you guys b/c M will finally get a win. I'm plenty happy never seeing this forum again. I can reach OP other ways for his address to send him the check.