M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[lineygoblue]

Your post is fine, Michael.

Regarding the situation at ohio: The alumni, former players, administration, faculty, and even the current students need to stand up and say "enough". The people who love that program better do something to get it under control, or they will end up in the same situation as SMU. The continuing violations are not a good sign that they've learned anything.

Talent is right. There's no way to be able to accurately predict what the NCAA is going to do, .. but knowing that its a roll of the dice to see what they're going to do, I'd think that the leadership there would want to get things under control NOW. They can't withstand many more "revelations".

[Jeff Buchanan]

Talent .....

Given the present circumstances at osu, does the recurrences of the receipt of inappropriate benefits on the part of devir posey (and others named earlier) raise any questions in your mind that there is, in fact, FtM at osu?

Is there any basis for outsiders to look at the mess that is the osu football program and not conclude that none of this stuff, esp. the stuff that is coming out this week, would be happening if adequate controls were in place to put an end to it?

Does the seemingly endless disclosures about players behaving in ways - found to be in violation of rules by the NCAA or not - that bring discredit on osu get you to the point that you would be willing to consider the possibility that there is an atmosphere of non-compliance in the osu football program?

That question, if you answer it honestly, is at the core of discussions we have had in the past where I think you have rejected my premise that there are fundamental problems involving rules enforcement within the osu program that are proven by the number of repeat offenses that keep coming to light. Kids DON"T BREAK THE RULES if there are adults around following them and setting an example. Kids DON'T" REPEATEDLY BREAK RULES if the know there are significant consequences (both peer and supervisory) for rule breaking and consequences are uniformly imposed.

I'll admit I get emotional about osu versus Michigan and I take great pleasure in watching the buckeye nation squirm. You should expect that after, as a Michigan fan, I put up with 10 years of crowing about osu's excellence from osu fans and simply had to eat it raw because Michigan football sucked.

Now the crowing that claimed Flagship status for osu has been proven to have been based on a good deal of lying, cheating and what appears to me to be a lack of institutional control that boggles the mind ..... and we can debate who is involved in it and its depth and impact and never agree. My problem with your dismissal of points I made up thread is that I don't think you have a solid basis to do that anymore.

Please tell me why you think you do.

[hack]

Also, thanks for the fair question. Always happy to respond in kind.

``I have my own bat and ball, thank you. Please allow me to continue pretending we don't have to pitch and catch the same one.''

[iam416]

Buchanan:

I'm done discussing this with you. I'm done responding to your supposition. Frankly, these "new" things add nothing to the discussion. They certainly aren't a tipping point by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, if they were, you'd have to concede you had almost nothing to support your earlier assertions because this stuff is minor by any standard. That's what you're saying. If I had a solid basis and don't any more, then these trifling violations were a tipping point -- which IMO, means there was almost zero there to begin with. Nothing has changed other than the date the NCAA will issue its findings.

I mean, am I honestly supposed to take this seriously:

Now the crowing that claimed Flagship status for osu has been proven to have been based on a good deal of lying, cheating and what appears to me to be a lack of institutional control that boggles the mind.

Seriously? You're the f'n king of hyperoble and mealy mouth bullshit littered with "mays" "coulds" "mights" and the like (at least the above is a definitive assertion "has been proven" -- laughable, but definitive). I've addressed you repeatedly on this issue to absolutely no positive end. I understand your opinions, but I have no interest in see this thread devolve into a crapfest again. And it will. To wit, Hack's oh so bitchified post above about a straightforeard answer I gave PB to a straightforwad question that had zero to do with him (as is my policy).

The reality is I shouldn't be posting here. There's no doubt about that. But, I feel, in some weird ass way, I owe it to you guys to be here since I kicked the shit out of you guys for 10 glorious years. Moreover, I'd feel a bit guilty resuming the ass-kicking next year if I weren't here now to take my licks. In other words, get them in now -- and pray to whatever power you believe in M doesn't lose this year to OSU. You best believe that.

[Ghengis Jon]

[hack]

You praised him for asking ``what do you think?'' and at the same time characterize anything other than a bland invitation to a broad comment as unworthy irrationality. Nobody's fooled by that. If you want to carry on a private conversation you can do it elsewhere. This is a forum, not a phone call.

[DennisT]

I kicked the shit out of you guys = I sat on the couch with my hand in my shorts and cheered a crooked program

[Optimus Prime]

Every day I get down on one knee and thank the good Lord that we have due process in this country and aren't, instead, governed by Michigan Man law.

!00% agreement, if in fact the class of Ann Arbor actually ran your school, things would be cleaned in short order. Gee & Smith would be fired, a criminal probe issued and let the cards fall where they may. Tressel would be behind bars and the Oakland Raiders WR Pryor would have a 250K garnishment for equipment theft.


But dream on, Can't have that, it's way too entertaining...Gee & Smith have driven your program in the ditch and it appears there is noway out.

DSL, don't let this cloud the pending doom of your Lincoln asspounding this Saturday.

[hack]

I suspect he means that he has a rhetorical superiority over everyone here, but at the moment he refuses to respond to any question more challenging than ``what's your opinion?''

[lineygoblue]

since I kicked the shit out of you guys for 10 glorious years.

Ummmmm.... no.

[iam416]

Incorrect.

Get your licks in now, boys. Clock is ticking. And keep praying, I mean really praying, that your boys finally end that losing streak.

[lineygoblue]

I don't think any of us need to get any licks in. You guys are whipping up on yourselves pretty well, thank you. Some of the bucknut boards have been way more brutal on themselves, than we have been here. Actually, I think we've been fairly civil. Well, with the exception of Jeff... but he's allowed some space.

And finally, I just don't get what winning or losing that game in November has to do with any of this. Win or lose, OLieO is still going to have institutional problems that must be addressed, if you don't want to end up taking a seat next to SMU.

Talent, you and Strangelove, and Regal all claim to love (pardon me Michigan fans) Ohio State football. If you really do, its going to take fans and alumni like yourselves, to band together, and demand change in Columbus. You have to get to a point where the shenanigans of Mssrs Tressel, Pryor, et al, are not considered acceptable, even though it may bring you those all-important wins over Michigan. You've got to insist that things be done RIGHT in Columbus, and that the knotheads who are running your program right now, be shown the door.

But, hey .... don't mind me. I'm just a sore Michigan fan who can't accept the losses the Tressel regime handed my team. My judgement is clouded by the insatiable desire to garner even ONE measly victory over the Buckeyes. Just sit back and allow Gee, Smith and their band of idiots to continue to drive your once proud program into the ground. I'll still have my team, .. losses and all. And I don't mind.

[iam416]

I'll try to be efficient: this board hasn't been civil (nor do I care), your premise is insulting, as is your condescension and I will, in fact, not mind you.

[Rocky Bleier]

A win by t*osu in November would not change what happened under Tressel. His reign will forever be tainted like Barry Bonds' home run record. Objective football fans in forty-nine states believe that t*su in an SEC-like outlaw program because their view from the outside is not clouded. Urban Meyer is a supreme schmuck. Quite a few of his players were arrested during his tenure at Florida. He'd be a great fit as the new head coach at O-lie-O.

[iam416]

You inadvertently make a good point, Rocky (as if you'd make good point any other way). It cuts right to my fundamental problem with the NCAA. We "criminalize" players for capitalizing on their fame -- their talent. If they were in art school, we'd chastize them as borderline criminals for selling, well, their artwork. And when you say Coach Meyer's history of arrests would fit right in, you perpetuate that very notion. In fact, when it comes to CFB, criminal activity is far preferrable to the odious, immoral, criminal act of trading your signature for a tattoo. And it's for that f'd up world view that I hold the NCAA directly accountable -- their insidious "student-athlete" noble amateur bullshit propaganda they used to desperately try to build and maintain their power base (see Atlantic Monthly article). It's as appalling as it is detached from reality.

But, yes, I agree, Coach Meyer would be a great fit at Ohio State.