M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Jamie H]

If this had been a day in court, someone would have had to testify under oath and fear of perjury.

[iam416]

tressel lied three times

Tressel lied about one thing. He failed to disclose the Cicero e-mails. It's nearly identical to asking a 40-year old woman how old she is, and when she says 37, asking really? really? really? -- and then saying she lied 4 times.

skeptics are being asked to believe that he did so without the knowledge of ANYONE inside the osu football program

We've already established that the only way OSU would have know about this SINGLE incident is to monitor his e-mail. We've also established that Ohio Stat self-reported the e-mails when they found out about it. Only the delusional press your argument.

One, the FACT that tressel lied, on three occasions, to the NCAA and that he admitted doing so indicts both tressel and the institution at which he was employed.

See above. Addressed and dismissed.

Two, one can reasonably suppose that osu officials other than jim tressel knew about these lies.

SELF. REPORTED.

Because no one has seen the NCAA report (it is not yet in the public domain) on their recent investigation to determine if a charge of LOIC or FTM should be included as an additional allegation, it is pure supposition that the NCAA findings are valid.

The 15-page letter summarizing the facts and the conclusions of the NCAA investigators have been available for weeks. As has Jim Tressel's testimony to the NCAA, FWIW. Check out the O-Zone. Quite the resource for official documents and such.

Opinions are going to vary regarding the question of whether or not osu knew what jim tressel knew and when they knew it. There are no facts to support either side

Well, one side is tasking with proving a positive and the other the impossible task of proving a negative. There is, at least one fact, to suppor the latter: SELF-REPORTED!

we are both trying to create a perception based on supposition and conclusions inductively reached. That being the case, I suppose that both parties engaged in it will admit such. I already have.

Again, you're asserting something. An accusation. OSU fans are saying, "no, that's not true." I acknowledge that OSU fans don't have definitive proof to establish the NEGATIVE. It is, afterall, a NEGATIVE [as you, e.g., couldn't definitely prove you're NOT a murderer]. I'm pleased to see you acknowledge you're in the same boat -- with the POSITIVE.

An actual jury would hang OSU with evidence from those former players. Unfortunately the NCAA can't compel testimony and those that could be talking aren't. Tons of loose ends in this investigation as nobody is talking except Tressel who is only admitting what he got caught doing red handed.

Finally, for WM Tiger-- NO! An actual jury would NEVER hear the crapola allegations out there. Courts, even civil courts and administrative proceedings have RULES OF EVIDENCE designed to prevent juries from hearing certain types of evidence -- unsubstantiated, incredible evidence.

And, as DSL noted, Cross-Examination would be a a BLAST even if the hearsay and conjecture were admitted.

So, Mr. Dohrman, you stand by all allegations in your story? Yes. Including the allegations against Storm Klein? Yes. Would it surprise you to learn that Storm Klein doesn't have a single tattoo? Uh, well, I didn't interview him. So, wait, Mr. Dohrman, are making allegations against players without first talking to them? Yes. And there's TONS MORE where that came from.

If this had been a day in court, someone would have had to testify under oath and fear of perjury.

Indeed. Including the "Ellis" source and the blacked-out face that said TP was getting $1000 a week (LMAO) for signing photos. Seriously, TP signed shit on eBay was marginally worth more than the 8x10. But, yes, that's an excellent point. In addition to RULES OF EVIDENCE, the "sources" would actually have to testify under oath AND, as DSL noted, subject themselves to cross-examination. My, oh my, how'd I'd love to conduct THAT cross.

[Optimus Prime]

Yes "innocent" men resign all the time. Had there even been the slimmest of hope, he Tressel would have remained an employee of OSU and actually defended his actions.

Tressel didn't fall on his sword he was driven from Columbus in shame, he has been reduced to coward lurking in disgrace, essentially irrelevant. Bring on Fickell.

Of course we cant lose sight of the fact that Tressel left OSU one hell of a bar tab to pay.

[WM Wolverine]

Exactly Jamie, they'd be forced to testify and answer the countless allegations against Ohio.

[iam416]

I want to apologize for using Dohrman in my Cross-Examination example. Dohrman, obviously, would never be able to testify as he has no personal knowledge. Sorry.

Yes "innocent" men resign all the time. Had there even been the slimmest of hope, he Tressel would have remained an employee of OSU and actually defended his actions.

Who is maintaining that Tressel is innocent? Why perpetrate that fraud, OP? Every OSU fan I know acknowledges Tressel F'd up. And he paid for his mistake with his career and reputation. I thought you knew that. You did know that, right? I mean, that's sort of common knowledge these days. But I can't really find any other explanation for that statement.

Oh well.

[iam416]

Exactly Jamie, they'd be forced to testify and answer the countless allegations against Ohio.

As explained, the "countless" (I'm fairly certain it's a discrete, ascertainable number, btw) allegations are almost entirely based on inadmissable evidence. You know, untrustworthy evidence. So, uh, no.

Thank you, come again.

[Optimus Prime]

Talent...we will never agree on this, IMO there was a litany of "evidence" against Tressel that spanned over a decade ...it was clearly evident to anyone that serious cared to look.

I think NYT nicely summarizes his decade of deceit...this is essentially becoming pointless, Tressel is gone, OSU is left holding the bag...let's hope it is full with "ripe" excrement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/sports/ncaafootball/28rhoden.html?_r=1&ref=ncaafootball

[Dr. Strangelove]

OP thinks an op-ed piece written by Bill Rhoden, who clearly knows jack shit about Ohio State when he claims every coach since Paul Brown has been fired (HINT: not true), constitutes "evidence against Tressel".

You know what, bring on the trial. If the prosecution will be led by Michigan Men like OP, I'm confident in a not guilty verdict at the end.

[iam416]

OP:

Setting aside my absolute shit opinion of Bill Rhoden, that article is Cicero (admitted) + Smith + Clarett + Isaac.

I would love -- LOVE -- to have a trial where Smith, Clarett and Ray Isaac testifed under oath. LOVE. IT.

[Optimus Prime]

Another feel good piece Gentlemen.

http://network.yardbarker.com/college_football/article_external/buckeyes_deserve_to_lose_latest_gamble/6111628

[lineygoblue]

Good article, but it falls upon deaf ears.

The good old boy network is alive and well within the NCAA investigation unit. OLieO has lots of friends within the NCAA who are going to make sure that they get away with all of this. Just the fact that ANY of these players are still on the roster at OLieO speaks to what is forthcoming. At any other major university, especially those north of ohio, the one of the first questions posed would be ".. and some of these guys are actually still on your roster?" Yet, at ohio, the four of the guilty players will be back to playing after Game Five, as though nothing ever happened.

Just win, baby.

[iam416]

At any other major university, especially those north of ohio, the one of the first questions posed would be ".. and some of these guys are actually still on your roster?" Yet, at ohio, the four of the guilty players will be back to playing after Game Five, as though nothing ever happened

Heh. And I'm supposed to care about M perception when it includes stuff like this. Oh well.

The "Yardbarker" article is horrible. Basically a rehash of most insipid and fatuous arguments out there.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Just another clown who wants the NCAA to ignore facts and evidence and simply rule on emotion and disapproval of Ohio State in general.

[lineygoblue]

But if the shoe were on the other foot ... hoooo boy ...

[Rocky Bleier]

"I'll be shocked and disappointed and on the offensive," Smith told The Associated Press recently. "It'll be behavior you haven't witnessed."

What an ass. That's Mike Garret-like. The good thing is that with Smith at the helm the cheating won't stop, and there will be future infractions to be dealt with severely.