M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Mike]

Most ohio coaches are tossed out in shame.

[Optimus Prime]

It is reasonable to assume that's because of the poor pedigree of the Institution. OSU, Agricultural Collegium, ( State School ), will admit anyone that manages to raise the tuition, what do you expect? Sadly most football players actually brag that they've never seen the inside of a classroom, written an exam or term paper while attending on scholarship.....Christ with academic standards that low not to mention lack of institutional control, tossing head coaches is just part of doing business at OSU. I guess when you let a rogue coach run the show tragic yes, heroic, not on your life.

Hopefully Smith swings for his latest folly:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/03/sports/ncaafootball/jim-tressel-ohio-state.html?_r=1&ref=ncaafootball

[geo weidl]

Looks as if o-lie-o will be buying their way out ncaa sanctions, at a dirt cheap price.

For its next act of NCAA contrition, Ohio State will forfeit its Sugar Bowl payout

By Matt Hinton
Anyone hoping for wailing and rending of garments from the conference room where Ohio State officials met with the NCAA's Committee on Infractions this morning was sorely disappointed: The entire proceedings took about half the usual time, and no shoes, hammers or pianos were dropped. The committee's formal verdict on Ohio State's case, along with any further sanctions it deems necessary in its infinite wisdom, are expected to follow in 6-to-8 weeks, or whenever they get around to it.
But OSU has added inflicted another lash on its already swollen wrist: The university announced it now plans to pay back $338,811 to the Big Ten to cover its share of the conference payout for the Buckeyes' appearance in the 2011 Sugar Bowl. It's the least they can do, really, considering that a) Ohio State twisted the NCAA's arm last December to allow four offensive starters to play in the game even after they had been declared ineligible and suspended for the first five games of the 2011 season for exchanging memorabilia for tattoos, cash and other benefits from a local tattoo parlor; b) All of the suspended players played a key role in the Buckeyes' 31-26 win over Arkansas on Jan. 4; and c) The victory has subsequently been wiped from the books, along with the other eleven wins in which the offending players participated in 2010. After the BCS victory, the Big Ten championship and coach Jim Tressel's job, the money was just about the only thing left to take.
At least, that's how Ohio State hopes the committee sees it. Since it threw Tressel to the wolves on May 30, the university has worked to position itself as a model of NCAA compliance that was duped by a single, rogue employee, who subsequently got what was coming to him. The NCAA seemed to buy that, incredibly, declining to add a "failure to monitor" or "lack of institutional control" charge to the two major violations it outlined in April. Those are the accusations OSU had to answer for today, and if you believe the oracle bones, there's a very good chance it won't face the potentially crippling scholarship losses and/or bowl ban that the NCAA dropped on USC last year.
As the season approaches, then, the committee's verdict looms as the biggest remaining question in the process. The second-biggest question is whether there are more formal charges on the horizon involving former quarterback Terrelle Pryor, which remains a distinct possibility.

[Dr. Strangelove]

It's a dark day for those who want the NCAA to act on suspicions and baseless allegations rather than act upon facts and logic.

[Optimus Prime]

OSU's scorched earth policy of destroying all evidence has made it necessary. It's just starting DSL, enjoy. The damage to OSU's reputation is immeasurable.

[lineygoblue]

One day, those kids are going to talk. Just like the SMU kids are talking nowadays, and chuckling about it ... one day the ohio kids will talk too. Clarett, Pryor, Troy Smith ... all of them will talk. They all played in games where they had no business being on the field. All played in key victories for their program.

And the tressel regime in ohio will forever marked with an asterisk, just like Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire, and Sammy Sosa. They all got to where they were by cheating.

[hack]

Not will -- is. Now. Everybody knows it. I wish they would come clean and restore some respectability, for the sake of The Game. Looks like they won't.

[WM Wolverine]

What can't be proven is pretty useless to the NCAA, even if those allegations come straight from current and former OSU players.

[Optimus Prime]

It's a dark day for those who want the NCAA to act on suspicions and baseless allegations rather than act upon facts and logic.

DLS, you truly astound, yesterday's proceedings were nothing more than a "Kangaroo Court", Tressel resigned in disgrace and left OSU to swing for his decade of criminal activity. Frankly I have not a sound reason as why he as a private citizen and no longer an employee of the State or the University, was aloud to appear in the first place? He has resigned on purpose so he is no longer obligated to cooperate in any meaningful capacity, the Rubicon has been crossed.

OSU & Tressel are continuing to game the system further, this was not a criminal court and the disgraced "Senator" was not bound legally by it's rules, procedures, findings or edicts.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The standards of justice demanded by the Wolverine faithful, where any wild allegation is tantamount to proof, is obscenely un-American.

Wolverine fans, your standards of evidence might play well in a Stalin show trial or in 1692 Salem, but an austere body like the NCAA holds itself to a higher standard.

[Optimus Prime]

If that were even remotely true, OSU never would have never hired Tressel in the first place... continue dreaming.

[WM Wolverine]

An actual jury would hang OSU with evidence from those former players. Unfortunately the NCAA can't compel testimony and those that could be talking aren't. Tons of loose ends in this investigation as nobody is talking except Tressel who is only admitting what he got caught doing red handed.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I find the argument regarding perception versus realty that has been offered up as a means of dismissing irregular behavior within the ohio state football program fatuous given that those who are doing this are trying to build their own reality based on the same kind of supposition.

Jim tressel lied. He knew key players, including his star QB on the 2010 football team, received benefits that would have rendered them ineligible for the entire 2010 season. He lied again when he was asked directly about it by investigators and he lied again, albeit indirectly, when he either directly or through osu officials convinced the NCAA to let 5 ineligible players play in the Cotton Bowl against Arkansas.

tressel lied three times and skeptics are being asked to believe that he did so without the knowledge of ANYONE inside the osu football program; and this despite that others outside the program did know either the exact details of events indicting the tat5 (cicero) or had voiced concerns about various players, pryor in particular (koivisto), receiving inappropriate benefits. I find it very difficult to believe that tressel was the only principal inside the osu football program with knowledge of the tat5’s behavior .….but nevertheless and moving on……

….. the university forced him to resign for this behavior claiming, of course, they didn’t know anything about it. He wasn’t terminated as his contract allowed for conduct like this and part of the agreement for his resignation it seems is that the university agreed to waive the $250K fine initially assessed for his lying and he is receiving full state retirement benefits. Did tressel have a bargaining chip in the deliberations over his departure or did osu officials simply want to do what was right for a coach who, despite this one error in judgment he claims, was an upstanding guy?

Both positions are supportable by observation and can be supposed, I suppose.

Talent asks us to accept that this is a terrible and sufficient punishment for the offense committed and it was committed independently, by tressel, acting alone, without the knowledge of anyone else, peer, subordinate or supervisor, inside the institution. I have a problem with this.

Supposedly, the NCAA has investigated and supposedly they have concluded there is no evidence that tressel’s conduct with regard to this specific rule breaking was known. No one has seen the NCAA report of these findings. But the NCAA decided against adding LOIC or FTM to the allegations already contained in the current NOA. One can suppose, I suppose, and talent does, that this suggests that they found nothing to support those charges.

These, talent offers, are the facts and only the facts can be used to produce the reality which he and jt’s supporters wish us to accept. Everything else is perception based only on supposition and is therefore invalid. However, as I have pointed out, there is as much supposing going on here among jt/osu supporters as there is among those of us who suppose tressel and osu are guilty of an institution wide cover-up of violations of NCAA rules.

Such is life.

talent has also advanced the argument involving 15 (USC) v. 5 (osu) as a counter to the view that osu should receive an equivalent level of punishment from the NCAA to that received by USC. It should be pointed out that no one inside USC admitted to nor was a principal accused of lying to the NCAA. It WAS SUPPOSED that Garret lied although he denied it and, if I have this correct, Bush was never asked while he was under the authority of the NCAA.

As it pertains to assessing penalties, I would argue two points: One, the FACT that tressel lied, on three occasions, to the NCAA and that he admitted doing so indicts both tressel and the institution at which he was employed. Two, one can reasonably suppose that osu officials other than jim tressel knew about these lies. This fact and one reasonable supposition trumps, in terms of severity, any of the transgressions of USC officials none of which were handed down based on facts but rather on, I think it was said by an NCAA official, “what USC officials were offering as an explanation for not knowing about Reggie Bush’s play for pay scheme didn’t make any sense.” Well, it might not have but that jim tressel kept it a secret for nearly a year that 5 members of the 2010 football team received inappropriate benefits doesn’t make much sense either.

Because no one has seen the NCAA report (it is not yet in the public domain) on their recent investigation to determine if a charge of LOIC or FTM should be included as an additional allegation, it is pure supposition that the NCAA findings are valid. They could be bunk. We can suppose, and there is some recent chatter to support it, that the NCAA hasn’t found any yet and it is still looking for evidence that supports LOIC and FTM.

So the jury seems to still be out on LOIC and FTM; nothing conclusive here, yet. Again, one could suppose that the NCAA and osu, conducting a cooperative and joint investigation into the matters involving the original NOA, have settled on the facts of the case and on an acceptable level of punishment. Keep in mind that LOIC and FTM were never in the original NOA.

So, let’s summarize: jim tressel lied (violation of 10.1); he resigned. Opinions are going to vary regarding the question of whether or not osu knew what jim tressel knew and when they knew it. There are no facts to support either side; there is supposition that osu has provided acceptable arguments to NCAA investigators that they did not know anything about the Cicero emails and the Tat5. Jim tressle’s and osu’s supporters are playing the same game his detractors are ….. we are both trying to create a perception based on supposition and conclusions inductively reached. That being the case, I suppose that both parties engaged in it will admit such. I already have.

[Dr. Strangelove]

An actual jury would hang OSU with evidence from those former players. Unfortunately the NCAA can't compel testimony and those that could be talking aren't. Tons of loose ends in this investigation as nobody is talking except Tressel who is only admitting what he got caught doing red handed.

A real trial would also allow us to cross-examine witnesses against us. Considering the source for the SI story wouldn't even show himself to the NCAA, it seems likely he's not confident his testimony will stand up under a fair system of law.

Witch trials. Stalinism. Lynchings. These are the systems of "justice" Michigan Men favor

[Optimus Prime]

DSL, to continue to perpetuate that this was actually OSU & Tressel's "Day in Court" is misleading and dishonest.