M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[hack]

Thanks OP. Agreed -- any dufus needs to know to go to Belle Glade instead, right? Hey speaking of: some friends did a documentary on the Muck Bowl, which is the rivalry between two HS FB powers on the southern shore of Lake Okechobee, the big lake in the middle of Florida. One can watch it cheap on Amazon and my pals get a few cents in the process: [ame="http://www.amazon.com/The-Muck-Bowl/dp/B003VCXJ1Q"]Amazon.com: The Muck Bowl: 3 Fish Produtions: Amazon Instant Video@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YyVV-KCgL.@@AMEPARAM@@51YyVV-KCgL[/ame]. Take a look!

Jeff, that's a powerful argument for which I have no counter. It very well could be. I agree wholeheartedly that regardless of the offense run, the offensive philosophy should never set the tone for the whole team. If you could run a spread offense like RRs yet keep your team focused on a core identity built around what's tried and true, it's a tempting experiment. Perhaps though it hasn't really been tried because that kind of identity-muddling baggage simply is part and parcel of having an offensive guru as a coach.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Jeff, that's a powerful argument for which I have no counter. It very well could be. I agree wholeheartedly that regardless of the offense run, the offensive philosophy should never set the tone for the whole team. If you could run a spread offense like RRs yet keep your team focused on a core identity built around what's tried and true, it's a tempting experiment. Perhaps though it hasn't really been tried because that kind of identity-muddling baggage simply is part and parcel of having an offensive guru as a coach.

Yeah ..... it's weird. After hearing Mike Leach talk about his unique, one-off offense (a lot more passing than RR's read-option-spread), the problems it creates for defenses, and how teams that run either spread or pro-style offenses had a difficult time defending against his schemes, this business of a mind-set that affects the whole team started to make sense.

Leach noted that in the NFL every team plays a similar style and its easier to get players prepared each week. That's not true at the college level AND, you have less time to focus on new defensive strategies each week because players are in class. His offensive strategy exploited that.

So, I would conjecture that in practice, Rodriguez spent so much time getting the offense to hum that whatever the defense might be doing was secondary and, moreover, in live first team 11 on 11, the defense was practicing against the read option and their entire mindset was focused on defeating what the OL was trying to do (get to the second level) instead of engaging them at the LOS ..... that dumb ass stunt of having the LBs line up right behind the OLmen is a scheme designed almost entirely to plug holes and keep OLmen from moving up field in the read-option offense. IOW, the defense was conditioned to think about defending spread teams with finessing offensive lines and not power run teams who gap block at the point of attack.

To extend this argument, one can see, as you note, that you can't have an offensive philosophy driving the focus of the game away from the physicality that is required to defeat and batter your opponent at the LOS. I think RR's failure at M had a lot to do with the style of play of the offensive line his offense requires, its impact on his own defense and ultimately why Michigan got hammered by good teams.

This is not to say the read-option spread can't work in any league but it is a powerful argument why it can't. I think it takes a special kind of head coach and a very talented DC who understands the problems that running read-option offenses we speak of here cause for defenses at the college level. Rodriguez surely did not have that on defense but I suspect he learned from his M experience. It will be interesting to see where he lands and how he handles this going forward.

[hack]

I agree and I see the big picture you're getting at. I just don't know of an example of a defense-and-ST-first coach who was also an offensive guru, and until that animal exists and is defeated by a conventional animal, I'm just saying that on paper the combo seems attractive and worth trying. Even if only to conclude that it's not gonna work.

Agree wholeheartedly that everybody needs to heed the same core goals, and the ones that transcend sides of the ball -- effort, win the LOS, be tougher, make no mistakes and capitalize on theirs -- those all work perfectly. Shame on any coach who doesn't get that, but doubleshame on anyone who hires such a coach.

[entropy]

jeff.. the DC should have been smart enough to build a defense for the conference and not to stop his own team

[iam416]

Mike Rosenberg stopped by yesterday. Good guy, for a "Michigan Man."

[Jeff Buchanan]

...... everybody needs to heed the same core goals, and the ones that transcend sides of the ball -- effort, win the LOS, be tougher, make no mistakes and capitalize on theirs -- those all work perfectly. Shame on any coach who doesn't get that, but doubleshame on anyone who hires such a coach.

Since this is the osu thread, I willl grudgingly tip my hat to cheater vest who besides his complete lack of moral integirty and wholesale scumbaggery was exactly like that.

Glad he's gone.

[stevemacie]

Investigation doesn't appear to be over for OSU.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6850888/ncaa-sends-second-letter-investigating-ohio-state

[whodean]

But, but, but the OlieO faithful told us this is nearly over with no further repercussions?

[hack]

Yes exactly -- it's suprisingly hard to find a coach who both gets it and can act on the knowledge. Tressell was certainly an exceptionally good football coach and OSU will not have coaching that good for a very long time unless they get Meyer.

[Dr. Strangelove]

So far it's just a possibility. I'll worry if the hearing on friday gets delayed

[iam416]

Yet another "story" that will join the myriad of others on the trash heap. Apparently a letter to Gee about the procedures for Friday constitutes news. Pat Forde and ESPN are haplessly desperate. Heh. I love it.

[lineygoblue]

You are incorrect, and the source is not Pat Forde.

The new letter stated that the inquiry into the car deals has not been concluded, and its possible that there may be additional charges which will be separate from the ones that ohio is facing on Friday.

Which reminds me again of how glad I am that Pryor chose ohio.

[iam416]

The new letter stated that the inquiry into the car deals has not been concluded, and its possible that there may be additional charges which will be separate from the ones that ohio is facing on Friday.

Not according to Ohio State:

Ohio State University denies an ESPN report that officials received a letter last week from the NCAA informing the university that other issues involving the football program remain under investigation. OSU spokesman Jim Lynch said this evening that ESPN's report, based on multiple unidentified sources, is incorrect. ESPN's Pat Forde reported: This is basically going to be a two-pronged investigation; there?s going to be more allegations to come in the future. Comment was being sought from ESPN on Ohio State's denial of its story. The university has received no indications from the NCAA that it could face additional allegations or findings, Lynch said. Lynch said that OSU President E. Gordon Gee received a letter from the NCAA on Aug. 3, but it concerned only procedural matters about the appearance of OSU officials before the Infractions Committee on Friday. The letter did not make any references to an ongoing investigation of the football program, Lynch said. Ohio State cannot immediately release the letter because if must undergo legal review prior to its release, he said.

*****

So, either Ohio State doesn't know anything about this letter, or even worse, they've seen the letter and a school subject to FOIA requests is misrepresenting it, or the yet another journalist's "sources" -- which are obviously sort of the opposite of being subject to FOIA requests -- are, stunningly, wrong. Given that it's Pat Forde and ESPN, man, well, good luck hitching your wagon to THAT star.

Now, what the letter probably said is something like: we're having a hearing on Friday, this is what you need to do and, oh by the way, the hearing doesn't settle all accounts -- if we find out that you did others things prior to the hearing, that's fair game. That's my guess.

[JRB]

This story never made any sense. If the NCAA were continuing an investigation of Ohio State, Ohio State's meeting with the COI would have been postponed indefinitely, because holding separate hearings on related infractions would be inefficient and would raise numerous procedural issues. NCAA enforcement process doesn't and can't work that way. The only unresolved issues out there, as best I can figure, are the specific allegations against Pryor, and I suspect the NCAA's run into a brick wall with respect to proving those, since Pryor is no longer obligated to cooperate with investigators. The NCAA may be keeping that matter open, much as it's kept the Cam Newton investigation open at Auburn, but they might well not ever have enough to make a case.

[lineygoblue]

It really doesn't matter anyway. ohio has pretty much dodged the bullet on this one. Good friends pay dividends, and ohio's good friends within the NCAA have held their hands all the way thru this process. It wouldn't surprise me to see the NCAA accept ohio's 'self punishment' as sufficient, considering Tressel and Pryor are gone. Friday's inquiry will be a mere formality.

The NCAA's selective outrage will be evident the next time that Michigan is accused of a major infraction.