M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[iam416]

Those of us with common sense have grown pretty sick of all of them and well, it's kind of good to see each and every one of them get what they had coming to them. They all look like idiots and Urban ends up looking like the sound, rational one.

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of that, Tom. And rightly so.

I still lay a good deal of the blame for the, IMO, unfair circus that was created on McMurphy in particular and social media in general but that's just me.

Correct. There are certain stories where the media is just broke. There is absolutely no pushback, counterpoint or anything else to almost any SJW story. I mean FFS, the coverage of Ferguson was an abomination. There's a really good reason why PDJT is able to sell his fake news narrative -- people know. McMurphy's story is representative of what the media is, IMO. Now, I don't know if this is bad as Rosenberg's brilliant expose on M cheating, but it's in the same ballpark.

Good and irrefutable points, AA.

M will bend over backwards to take it in the ass. Does this sort of behavior pay dividends? I think right now, osu may be somewhat envious.

You make some good points, Buchanan, but there's absolutely know way OSU wants to be giant pussies that kowtow to tje SJW McCarthyites. You have to stand up for what's right at some point. You have to follow the facts at some point. And while OSU half-assed it, at least they didn't fully ignore justice and cave completely to outrage mob.

[Jeff Buchanan]

...........When it comes to ethics and morality things are much more clear. There's no gray area there and saying so is to be confused or to engage in the kind of doublespeak that those people indulge in on a regular basis. They claim to hold themselves to a standard they actively and willfully and repeatedly ignore. ``Life promises to God", "Disciplina in civitatem", or Meyer's big lockerroom sign exhorting ethical behavior, etc. The football program's most-beloved coach was responsible for one of the most reprehensible on-field acts in the history of the sport, yet they revere him still. This is who they are. It's very clear and not grey.

I hear what you're saying but I think you're walking onto ground regarding ethics and morals that is difficult to defend in the absolute terms you seem to be describing. First, with regard to morality, you're speaking of guard rails in human behavior that vary greatly depending on one's spiritual convictions. That one to me, with regard to accusations that meyer or by extension the entire athletic department acted immorally, is easy to shoot holes in, e.g. did ufm, smith or any principals within the osu athletic department and in this specific case act immorally? If you want to call that double speak, I can't stop you.

I think your argument is stronger when it comes to ethics. There were rules and well established standards of conduct promulgated by the u, spelled out contractually for employees under contract and, in this particular case, made clear through various means by ufm himself. There is no question that ZS ran afoul of a shitload of these and was terminated in large measure because he failed to live up to those standards. What ethical standards did ufm actually not follow? Was it unethical that ufm hired ZS in the first place or didn't fire ZS when he probably should have. I can't make that case, maybe others can.

AA gave a pretty good run down on the various pitfalls supervisors/leaders face when confronting a subordinate who has demonstrated behaviors that cross the ethical lines we're talking about here. It's easy for us, the peanut gallery so to speak, to look back and be aghast at ufm's failure to not recognize the necessity to fire ZS. For good leaders and supervisors, though, there is always more to it than the absolutes in a firing decision you seem to think were obvious. Based on what we know and can be substantiated by testimony what ufm knew about ZS at various points along the way, what he knew about police reports and was informed about with regard to CS's reliability might have justifiably raised his threshold of fireable offenses. Was ufm acting ethically when he worked to give ZS a road to get his act together by both his counseling and his actions to enroll him in help programs? ufm chose that road, perhaps inappropriately and for too long in ZS's case, but that decision was neither immoral or unethical, certainly not criminal and some have made the case that his punishment in total is wrong much because of that.

[AlabamAlum]

Talent,

In closing: Urban is infinity times worse than Nassar, Sandusky, and Hitler. I will not stand here and let you condone unchecked Urban's obvious guilt in Courtney Smith's abuse, the death of the kid at Maryland, 9/11, and the assassination of JFK. You sicken me. Also, Woody threw a punch. We need to dig his corpse up, shoot him, and bury him again. The bastard.

[hack]

This isn't hard, Jeff. You don't have to judge them by your own ethical guardrails or however you want to put it. It takes very little effort to simply note the difference between what they say and what they do. The school and its coaches are rather vocal in setting their own standard with their slogans and books and posters and lists. People like that count on people like you getting lost in the details.

[iam416]

[AlabamAlum]

Oh it's not over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[froot loops]

The report states they believe he deleted texts in relation to the investigation but they couldn't 100 percent prove it. That's something that should go into your list. If I had to bet a sizable income on whether Meyer did that, I would bet on deletion. I think that is unethical and grounds for termination. He's lucky he didn't get fired, that's why I don't think three games is a big deal.

[AlabamAlum]

First I heard of it. They believe he deleted texts but can't prove it? Alleged texts to/from whom and the supposed content of said texts?

[froot loops]

AA - I'm on a phone, but read the report there is a section on it. I should be more specific, they think he may have changed his settings to remove all texts older than a year. They can't tell for certain whether he did that setting before or after the report came out. And he had a conversation with a department official on how to do it.

[AlabamAlum]

I do the same thing. I have a sunset on my text messages. Mine expire after 30 days. If it's important, I save it. Otherwise, it's gone in a month.

Okay, I will look at the report when I have time. But if the only thing they have is him changing text message expiry dates in iOS, and not someone sceaming they send him a text message that detailed something untoward that he deleted to cover up, I am not sure how that's a salient point in this.

[hack]

AA is so open minded to knowing all the facts!

[froot loops]

Yep, if his phone was always set that way, it isn't a salient point, if it was set that way on 8/1 it is salient

[AlabamAlum]

Yes, possibly. Although it's hard to imagine a smoking gun text message to/from/about Zach. I mean, Urban knew what was alleged, the AD knew, the police knew, her parents knew. But when you do something like that, it looks fishy, no doubt. It's like in hospitals and writing on a patient's chart, if you scratch out an error in charting to where it is unreadable, and something happens to the patient, the worst can and will be assumed about the scratched out writing.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Normally, we have this news cycle thing where titilating tid-bits such as those surrounding the meyer affair percolate for a few days, maybe a week, then are replaced by other more interesting or titillating (the engagement thing) stories because interest wears out. Not this one I'm affraid and actually I have no sympathy for osu in the aftermath

Last night meyer released another statement via the osu media relations department. urban? You want to keep this shit in the news? If not then STFU.

I'm no ufm fan. Fuck osu is my mantra. Nevertheless, I defended him and criticized the media circus that produced a biased court of public opinion that convicted him before due process was undertaken and that led to his punishment ...... greatly influenced IMO by what appears to be a meager and ill-conceived attempt to assuage the outraged.

Here's what one osu fan had to say about ufm in a thread discussing the currently in the news question on deleted text messages and meyer's media release late yesterday:



There is no doubt that urban has a huge ego. It's bruised. His post punishment announcement comments reflect his wish to both garner sympathy for his circumstance, make him look and feel better about himself. Several of us have commented that we think this entire episode is going to erode his enthusiasm for the game. It's an albatross around the neck of both himself and osu. Big news (and I really don't associate what is implied by it) that 2019, 4* LB Kane Patterson has decommitted from osu. The press will assign the reason for this decommittment to fall-out from the meyer affair. The feeding frenzy will continue and it's not going to help but only hurt osu football in 2018 and probably beyond. You can also be assured that osu 2019 commits are getting lots of calls from programs like Alabama that were in on his recruitment.

I'm actually wondering if ufm will, at some point this season, resign or be fired if the pressure continues or it's shown that he deleted potentially incriminating texts. While I intensely dislike osu football (my mother taught me to never use the word hate), you just can't wish this kind of shit on anyone or any program with the profile that osu has.

[CGVT]

Just win, Baby!