M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[klondike]

What concerns me more from this shitstorm is how Meyer's attitude as coach will proceed through the trials that are still to come throughout this season. Will his drive to continue to coach at an elite level be worth the hassle that is sure to come.

[froot loops]

I'm not sure the liberal media has anything to do with that OSU report. There is some pretty damning shit in there. The report doesn't flat out accuse him of deleting the texts but it sure seems like that's what he did. I guess if you want to blame the liberal media for forcing him to delete texts, that might be valid.

[iam416]

3 games is far more than he deserved. But, ask Bill Munny: Deserving's got nothing to do with this.

Correct, though it's "deserves".

Yes, never thought I could agree on the Ohio State side. Unreal.

Correct. Welcome, both of you, to the morally weak subhuman group.

It's crystal clear that both Gene Smith and UFM handled the 2015 allegations correctly. Crystal. Clear. The Title IX Coordinator was fully involved. She, incidentally, also works another group Smith and UFM were criticized for not reporting to. In other words, Miechelle told Gene who told UFM who then had to tell Gene who then had to tell Miechelle as part of a different group. In any event, I'm not aware of any penalties she's facing for her handling of the matter.

The report also faults Gene and UFM for relying on the law enforcement investigation. Instead of relying on law enforcement (who was conducting a pending investigation), they needed to conduct their own investigation (also, apparently some posters think this is not correct -- I'd suggest they read the report).

So, they ended up being forced to find others reasons to hang UFM and Gene to appease front hole SJW crowd. And so they did, but it was obviously not enough for the McCarthyites and so they ended up getting shit on from both sides.

I should note, in this case it was the front hole SJW crowd demanding the lynching. It could have easily been right wing Flag Uber Alles crowd if facts were different. The only difference, of course, is that the most prominent sports media is only part of one them lynch mobs. Wingsfan is exactly right.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Checked in with The Ozone this morning. Tom Orr wrote an article condemning meyer's leadership in the ZS affair and how he should no longer be given the benefit of doubt. The comments are worth reading as it takes the temperature of the osu fan base. Not everyone is supportive of meyer and some think he should have been fired.

I still hold that fundamentally, the entire affair was an over-reaction to a hit piece created in a tweet by Brett McMurphy. The over-reaction due in large part to the age of outrage we live in. If social media didn't exist or McMurphy had been subject to editorial review as he would have been if he actually was a journalist writing for a sports magazine, you have to ask, would the content of his tweet been published? Maybe not. That's because his sources and information would have been vetted and given the speculative nature of the story and the questionable reliability of persons providing information, his story probably would not have been published. The investigation would never have taken place.

Once the cat was let out of the bag and an investigation undertaken, the sordid details of ZS's and CS's private lives were revealed. So were the details of ZS's job performance which, when you look carefully at it, it becomes clear that (1) meyer should have fired him very early on in the affair and (2) Smith should have over-ridden meyer's decision to retain him when they discussed replacing him based on his job performance and behavior.

I do think meyer was inappropriately influenced in his decision making by ZS's relationship to earl bruce and meyer's admiration and loyalty to bruce. But that sort of thing is real and in some cases valuable. I also believe that meyer did take appropriate steps in trying to assist ZS to get his act together. He confronted ZS about his behavior and job performance. He likely documented all of this should it become necessary to fire him and ultimately he did. Did it take too long? Probably. Did he harbor a wife beater as has been the perception of some? I don't think so and that's the rub for me. I think those accusations are unfair and based on information that would never have come to light save a speculative tweet designed to stoke the outrage present in today's culture.

Finally and incidentally, I think this is going to affect meyer 's enthusiasm for the game going forward. Reprimands, especially very public ones like this, are hard to digest. You are angry about them, feel they are undeserved, feel that they overlook the 99/100 things you have done well to punish you for the one thing you screwed up. It is what it is though - one aw-shit erases 1000 atta boys. But my sense is that urban is going take all of this hard and the sting is going to last a long time for him.

https://theozone.net/2018/08/column-urban-meyer-and-the-benefit-of-the-doubt/

[froot loops]

I don't get this front hole shit, what does that mean? I think how they dealt with Zach Smith was flawed but not grounds for termination in my opinion. The very real possibility that Meyer deleted texts after 8/1 is better grounds for termination.

[iam416]

I think how they dealt with Zach Smith was flawed but not grounds for termination in my opinion.

Right, so I agree that ZS should have been fired awhile ago -- if for no other reason than job performance! To say he handled ZS appropriately is incorrect. However, to say he deserves a significant punishment for his handling of an employee is, IMO, dead wrong.

I don't get this front hole shit, what does that mean?

Oh, some truly nutjob leftist academic has asserted that the term vagina isn't gender neutral (you know, transitioning folks and stuff) and insists on using front hole. So, of course, the right wing memes seize on this to say -- look -- crazy left! I think it's hilarious and have really cottoned to it.

[drok]

Stop blaming everyone else but Meyer. This was completely self-inflicted. If he said he knew everything, reported properly and maybe held on to ZS too long at Big Ten media days, this was a 2 day news story that blows over. Or even if his statement said this after the error and wasnt like a week later, it's probably a week long news story. If Meyer had fired ZS for legitimate performance issues and, you know, things like ordering $2,000 of sex toys to the office(!!), then none of this happens. Or you know, dont hire a guy that he obviously knew was a ticking time bomb waiting to go off...he had worked with him before and should have known the quality and baggage he was getting. It's not like he didn't already set him up after having him on staff at Florida. Maybe don't delete all your texts to arouse more suspicion too.

Those are all Meye's decisions. But Meyer always thinks he knows better (as do most coaches).

[drok]

I should add that I dont think he should be fired. I do think he's getting the media attention he deserves though.

[iam416]

I still hold that fundamentally, the entire affair was an over-reaction to a hit piece created in a tweet by Brett McMurphy.

Right. So imagine if McMurphy's original piece was an actual journalistic investigation. Imagine he spoke with CS, got her side of the story, went to OSU and asked for their side -- and, btw, if you tell them the gist of what you already have from CS, they WILL tell you their side. Maybe it takes a week or two, but they will. And then McMurphy writes a story about how CS alleged DV, there was a police investigation, Gene Smith, UFM and OSU's Title IX coordinator were all in the know, the OSU side opted to not do anything until the LE investigation was completed, OSU was set to fire him if he was even CHARGED and, ultimately, the LE investigation produced no charges. If that's the story -- and, btw, it is -- then there is no outrage. An honest, straight-forward telling of the story produces nothing.

And whether people like it or not, McMurphy is part of the media these days.There's no getting around that. And no one that I'm aware of (other than one OSU writer) in the "media" has tried to hold him accountable. The OSU websites have tried to write up the basic story, but that's it. Everyone else is blindly following McMurphy who, at this stage, has an obvious agenda. And that is just one reason why people correctly shit on the media.

Once the cat was let out of the bag and an investigation undertaken, the sordid details of ZS's and CS's private lives were revealed

Yeah, so to be very clear -- this was ALL Courtney Smith airing the sordid details. She was the one who got in touch with McMurphy and released her text messages to start this whole thing. She was the one who was obviously the source for the Amazon/Dick pictures thing. So, to the extent that reads as some sort of unfortunate by-product of McMurphy's reporting -- it's not. It's the intentional result of CS's actions.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Froot ...... you might have missed this up thread. Over a couple of posts, some laughed out loud over the name change from vagina to front hole in a safe sex guide published by the LGBTQIA community. Most also got a laugh out of the ever expanding grouping of those who aren't straight to include this definition of LGBTQI (first time I saw this) The letters LGBTQIA refer to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer or questioning, intersex, and asexual or allied...... whatever that shit means.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/people-angry-safe-sex-guide-calls-vagina-front-hole-012527170.html

[iam416]

Stop blaming everyone else but Meyer. This was completely self-inflicted.

I think that's PROBABLY true. This MIGHT not be the story it was if he was much better prepared at the B10 news conference (other than thinking in terms of McMurphy's erroneous report that ZS was arrested). BUT, there's still a fairly significant chance that it would be because CS would have still released the texts to Shelley Meyer and there is no way, IMO, that he media ignores those. But, let's say it was completely self-inflicted -- that's one thing -- whether the self-inflicted punishment is just is another. Sure, getting arrested for a DUI is entirely self-inflicted, but if I get beaten to death in the jailhouse that's not just (even if completely self-inflicted).

UFM bears responsibility for bringing the storm upon himself, but IMO he deserved a thunderstorm, not a Category 5 hurricane. And when it comes to how big the storm was I think it's completely fair to look at how that came about and assign responsibility.

If Meyer had fired ZS for legitimate performance issues and, you know, things like ordering $2,000 of sex toys to the office(!!),

Yeah, I'm still not sure how on earth UFM is supposed to know about that. There is no "open Amazon packages" inspection requirement.

Anyway, I appreciate your takes, Drok.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Drok, meyer is not blameless and I don't think anyone with a brain is suggesting that.

talent's post immediately following yours is informative with regard to the issue of discovery.

My rub is with the rush to convict in the court of public opinion. We've had some discussion on and I posted an article about the risks to truth embodied in the current age of the voluminous information available to us. As well, consumers of it have to be aware of the underlying motivations of entities who are pipelines (the article refers to gate-keepers) of information. e.g. the Russians engage in an effort to distort the truth and create a false reality. Corporations engage to both shape a reality favorable to thier POV and garner profits.

I think the meyer affair is a good example of a speculative reality being created by a social media (twitter) maven that prompted an investigation that otherwise would have not occurred. talent's post does a good job of demonstrating how a more truthful reality regarding ufm's handling of ZS would have occurred had the story been pursued in the confines of journalistic integrity.

[drok]

This is less about the medium of social media and more about the obsession of CFB and god-like status that coaches have been raised to.

[drok]

I think that's PROBABLY true. This MIGHT not be the story it was if he was much better prepared at the B10 news conference (other than thinking in terms of McMurphy's erroneous report that ZS was arrested). BUT, there's still a fairly significant chance that it would be because CS would have still released the texts to Shelley Meyer and there is no way, IMO, that he media ignores those. But, let's say it was completely self-inflicted -- that's one thing -- whether the self-inflicted punishment is just is another. Sure, getting arrested for a DUI is entirely self-inflicted, but if I get beaten to death in the jailhouse that's not just (even if completely self-inflicted).

UFM bears responsibility for bringing the storm upon himself, but IMO he deserved a thunderstorm, not a Category 5 hurricane. And when it comes to how big the storm was I think it's completely fair to look at how that came about and assign responsibility.



Yeah, I'm still not sure how on earth UFM is supposed to know about that. There is no "open Amazon packages" inspection requirement.

Anyway, I appreciate your takes, Drok.

"Probably" and "Might" are likely more fair. The thing is that there were many opportunities for him slow this train of criticism down and instead he helped it along each time. The sex toys is more just rivalry fun...however, I don't believe for a second that Meyer didn't have a good sense of what this guy was about. Meyer doesn't need to know EVERYTHING, but I'm guessing he knew most just by nature of these guys spending countless hours with each other on road trips and recruiting trips. You learn a lot about people while on the road together. Especially when they've been working together for a decade (or more?).

[iam416]

I don't believe for a second that Meyer didn't have a good sense of what this guy was about.

Yeah, it's hard to disagree with that statement. I certainly don't think he handled ZS properly. I tend to think he didn't deserve significant punishment for his handling of ZS, though. Whether 3 games and the press conference charade amounts to "significant" is in the eye of the beholder, I guess