M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[entropy]

JRB.. yes, I was. even a blind nut finds a squirrel.

give me a trend and I'll change my mind on the NCAA

[lineygoblue]

plus, I lack faith in them.

This is a good policy.

[Jeff Buchanan]

.... give me a trend and I'll change my mind on the NCAA

Well, that's a valid position based on the history of the NCAA in meeting out post COI sanctions. I have heard numerous well informed observers say you cannot predict what the NCCA is going to do in any given circumstance. Of course, most of us would agree that is unfortunate for college sports and CFB in particular because that's where most of the problems are right now.

Without trying to name specific sanctions (impossible) I think the current environment, a lurking Congress and public statements made by NCAA President Mark Emmert http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/2011-0...rity-penalties make it highly likely that osu is going to get hammered as the poster child for what the NCAA is going to do going forward for programs whose officials don't have a clue (at best) or are substantively involved (at worst) in assisting (hooking up) players to get bennies.

I'm reasonably confident in saying they are going to be sent a message that they MUST CLEAN UP THEIR ACT and that the price of being idiots, complicit or both is going to be pretty awful. In other words, think carefully in your calculus on deciding whether acting or failing to act like osu is worth it.

To make a long post short ...... Entropy you are wrong.

.

[Malto Marko]

“When it comes to issues of integrity of intercollegiate athletics, what I can first and foremost do and will do is be doggedly persistent, constantly raising those issues, working with our leadership groups to improve on it,” he said.

Read: 'I am going to hold continuous meetings to discuss this. First one will be next week in Hawaii, we will have at least three more discussions before the next Championship game with the meeting sites yet to be determined.


You can be assured we will be addressing this with the proper enthusiasm.



I have no comment on what may have happened prior to our new policy being discussed. "

[Dr. Strangelove]

Strangelove asked how a compliance department can stay on top of kids for violations? Well this is how: (Story from MGoBlog):

As someone who once helped a football player fix his car, Michigan compliance was so far up my ass there was a blue lot in my lower colon and I almost got my own blue bus stop. The player bought the tie rods and I did the labor since I knew how and had the tools. He paid me for my time in beer and pizza. Compliance jumped all over this and figured out the hourly rate for a mechanic was greater than the cost of the beer and pizza, thus he still owed me money. I attempted to lowball my time estimate for doing the job, they talked to a real mechanic and got the official time estimate for tie rod replacement. They were also unimpressed by the fact I helped all my friends fix their cars in exchange for beer and pizza. So they basically stood over him while he wrote me a check for what they demanded the difference was. They also made him pay my uncle who let us use the lift in his garage.

I tossed the check aside and figured "I might cash this if he gets drafted, maybe". Someone though noticed the money never came out of his account and started calling me about cashing the damn check. This was old school Carr era though.
The next time I worked on his car I sarcastically sent them an invoice (six page writeup for helping him replace two brake pads) "for their records", they crosschecked all my time estimates and sent me back an approval letter and a genuine thank you for the paper...

Yeah but Jamie, I'm guessing the player self-reported his car maintenance at some point. Ultimately it boils down to trust in the kids reporting on their own activities. I doubt Michigan had someone following him around. How else did they even find out about this? Are players required to give routine reports on their possessions?

And I'm honestly surprised that compliance officials would even be allowed to monitor bank accounts of players. How isn't that an invasion of privacy?

[Jeff Buchanan]

And I'm honestly surprised that compliance officials would even be allowed to monitor bank accounts of players. How isn't that an invasion of privacy?

No.

In Loco Parentis ...... when a student enrolls, the university assumes significant powers. Doing stuff you would never imagine they can do is fine with the courts who will rarely intervene on behalf of a student who thinks his constitutional rights have been violated. The courts will look for due process but this sort of thing is usually provided.

To the larger issue ...... osu's Athletic Department and the Compliance Staff within it are looking like dog shit to observers who really have no ax to grind with osu. I've seen three very convicting posts around that exclaim, WTF ..... there is no way this ( the gear thing, tp driving 6 different cars and w/o a license or insurance) would have happened at X.

Girls Gone Wild except these are osu football players.

[hack]

Hey maybe the school you root for should send some of its compliance officers up here to get answers to some of those questions.

[Dr. Strangelove]

No.

In Loco Parentis ...... when a student enrolls, the university assumes significant powers. Doing stuff you would never imagine they can do is fine with the courts who will rarely intervene on behalf of a student who thinks his constitutional rights have been violated. The courts will look for due process but this sort of thing is usually provided.

To the larger issue ...... osu's Athletic Department and the Compliance Staff within it are looking like dog shit to observers who really have no ax to grind with osu. I've seen three very convicting posts around that exclaim, WTF ..... there is no way this ( the gear thing, tp driving 6 different cars and w/o a license or insurance) would have happened at X.

Girls Gone Wild except these are osu football players.

So do players sign some sort of agreement that so long as they're enrolled, school officials will be allowed access to their bank accounts or monitor what they're looking at on the web?

Hey it's probably legal if a player signs some form of waiver but if I were a player it'd drive me away from a school if I basically had to turn over my bank account to them.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Off topic, but there is a rumor that Oregon is the next school in the NCAA's sights and there may be a story breaking about them in the next few weeks

[Jeff Buchanan]

No, as far as I know, there are no contracts. I do know, that when students cry foul and go to a lawyer to represent them the lawyers will tell them sorry, you might want to have someone else represent you. Why? because, as I said, the Courts rarely intervene in matters involving how schools monitor a student's' behavior or discipline them because of the concept of In Loco Parentis unless they do not have some form of due process in place .... neurally no university is stupid enough to expose themselves to civil actions like this.

A student athlete, I assume, can complain to the AD about someone monitoring his bank account and failing satisfaction there to the Provost. There are procedures in place to review practices at the U level and if they are found by U officials to not be in compliance with these procedures the student may get redress ..... but most of the time students are too stupid to follow-through with established procedures, then try to find a lawyer who will sue the U and only stupid or crooked layers will take their case (after collecting 5-10 grand up front knowing they will never prevail on behalf of the student)

[Jeff Buchanan]

Off topic, but there is a rumor that Oregon is the next school in the NCAA's sights and there may be a story breaking about them in the next few weeks

Pray for that f***er.

[Dr. Strangelove]

No, as far as I know, there are no contracts. I do know, that when students cry foul and go to a lawyer to represent them the lawyers will tell them sorry, you might want to have someone else represent you. Why? because, as I said, the Courts rarely intervene in matters involving how schools monitor a student's' behavior or discipline them because of the concept of In Loco Parentis unless they do not have some form of due process in place .... neurally no university is stupid enough to expose themselves to civil actions like this.

A student athlete, I assume, can complain to the AD about someone monitoring his bank account and failing satisfaction there to the Provost. There are procedures in place to review practices at the U level and if they are found by U officials to not be in compliance with these procedures the student may get redress ..... but most of the time students are too stupid to follow-through with established procedures, then try to find a lawyer who will sue the U and only stupid or crooked layers will take their case (after collecting 5-10 grand up front knowing they will never prevail on behalf of the student)

I don't see how it could be remotely legal for a school to monitor student bank accounts without some form of waiver being signed. Why would a bank even allow them access without it? I can't just walk into a bank, say I'm with Michigan compliance, and demand to see Robinson's credit score

[Jeff Buchanan]

.... I can't just walk into a bank, say I'm with Michigan compliance, and demand to see Robinson's credit score

if you work for Compliance or the Dean of students and you have a valid reason, for example, to suspect an enrolled student athlete is dealing drugs and you want to look at his bank account, absolutely and every court in the land will uphold your right to do that.

Now the bank may not initially cooperate on the grounds that you offer but in the end, no court order will be required and yes the school does have unprecedented rights to snoop around in your personal shit.

I'd have to study this more carefully but in your enrollment documents there is probably some fine print that allows school officials to do this. I am absolutely certain that if you are on scholarship, documents you sign to get that scholarship contain provisions where you sign away most of your constitutional rights to privacy.

I am also fairly certain that when you are a scholarship athlete at a participating NCAA institution that you have virtually no privacy and no rights that you might expect. The reason for that is to allow reputable compliance officials, obviously the type not associated with osu, to keep track of you and make sure you aren't violating NCAA rules.

[Dr. Strangelove]

if you work for Compliance or the Dean of students and you have a valid reason, for example, to suspect an enrolled student athlete is dealing drugs and you want to look at his bank account, absolutely and every court in the land will uphold your right to do that.

Now the bank may not initially cooperate on the grounds that you offer but in the end, no court order will be required and yes the school does have unprecedented rights to snoop around in your personal shit.

I'd have to study this more carefully but in your enrollment documents there is probably some fine print that allows school officials to do this. I am absolutely certain that if you are on scholarship, documents you sign to get that scholarship contain provisions where you sign away most of your constitutional rights to privacy.

I am also fairly certain that when you are a scholarship athlete at a participating NCAA institution that you have virtually no privacy and no rights that you might expect. The reason for that is to allow reputable compliance officials, obviously the type not associated with osu, to keep track of you and make sure you aren't violating NCAA rules.

Well that's what I'm saying, the players may be signing something they're not even aware they are signing.

I just can't imagine, without any legal document of any kind, any university official can walk into a bank and the bank must immediately obey and hand over private information just because some university bureaucrat demands to see it.

[hack]

Not that I've ever thought about it in that level of detail before, but if you're going to have a compliance office, that sounds like the sorta thing they would do and that the fine print would exist on something official and signed.